Discuss Ghostbusters: Afterlife, released on November 19, 2021 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4972247
I just noticed that in the midst of Phoebe and her mom fighting over the neutrona wand that was pointed at the sheriff, Mekenna Grace must have accidentally hit the trigger button because the wand tip lights up briefly :lol:

And if I remember correctly Gozer's eyes were red originally but they decided to CGI it black in Post. Well when Phoebe shoots her from behind and Gozer turns around, her eyes are red in that one shot. They must have forgotten to CGI it.

...it's been a weird day with too much time on my hands and looking for an escape from life.

For whatever reason I never appreciated the movie as much as I did after today's rewatch. I completely enjoyed it for what it is and not what it could/should have been.
#4972255
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: August 29th, 2022, 9:51 am If vigo comes back, I think Firehouse will review badly and there won’t be a 5th movie.
I agree. Vigo coming back would be just about the worst possible mistake they good make (unless they bring back Gozer again). It seems pretty clear from the ending on GBII that Vigo was destroyed. Sure, they could shoehorn him back in, but that would just cheapen his defeat in GBII. I want to see some new villains and obstacles.
#4972256
If Jason feels the need to recreate Ghostbusters 2 again, he can still do a whole Dr. Janosz thing without bringing back Vigo at all. I brought up the idea before but he'd make an excellent villain. Maybe have the library ghost point him to a spell book to get even with the Busters being so noisy in the library.

Honestly I really would like to see the return of the Scolari Bros. that judge has to be a ghost himself now. Think they hang out and have a few ecto-flavored brewskie's?
#4972258
timeware wrote: August 31st, 2022, 4:27 pm If Jason feels the need to recreate Ghostbusters 2 again, he can still do a whole Dr. Janosz thing without bringing back Vigo at all. I brought up the idea before but he'd make an excellent villain. Maybe have the library ghost point him to a spell book to get even with the Busters being so noisy in the library.

Honestly I really would like to see the return of the Scolari Bros. that judge has to be a ghost himself now. Think they hang out and have a few ecto-flavored brewskie's?
I know the doctor was being sarcastic but I hope after everything was said and done, the Ghostbusters did an extensive scan of all of the museum and its contents. That could have been a lucrative hussle Peter suggested to all museums. When their shipments come in, pay the Ghostbusters to scan and pass it. Cheaper than the damage the museum has to pay for after a major manifestation, with the Manhattan Museum of Art being an example. But I digress.

If anything from GB2, I'd like to see what state the Psychmagnotheric ectoplasm is in. Like a mold, it could have easily regenerated in the 2020s... or even a new strain moved in.
#4972259
Wilhelm von Homburg passed in 2004 so unless they get express permission I think bringing VIgo back in any capacity would be seen being disrespectful? Aside from maybe having someone pull the Vigo painting out of storage and it's just covered enough we get a glimpse of vigo's arm or something under the paintings sheet. That's the extent I want to see of Vigo's return.

A fun scene would be having one of the kids use the slime scoop as an ice cream scoop.
#4972262
In any case, let's stick to Afterlife for this thread. There's a thread for the sequel. I totally thought I was replying in the latter, lol.

jonogunn wrote: August 30th, 2022, 6:46 pm And if I remember correctly Gozer's eyes were red originally but they decided to CGI it black in Post. Well when Phoebe shoots her from behind and Gozer turns around, her eyes are red in that one shot. They must have forgotten to CGI it.
Yup, those were 2 instances of the red eyes still showing up. Guess they missed that in super long post.
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#4972272
timeware wrote: August 31st, 2022, 4:27 pm If Jason feels the need to recreate Ghostbusters 2 again, he can still do a whole Dr. Janosz thing without bringing back Vigo at all. I brought up the idea before but he'd make an excellent villain. Maybe have the library ghost point him to a spell book to get even with the Busters being so noisy in the library.

Honestly I really would like to see the return of the Scolari Bros. that judge has to be a ghost himself now. Think they hang out and have a few ecto-flavored brewskie's?
Sometimes I can’t tell if you are serious about these ideas or if they are jokes. They are jokes right?

You don’t really want to see the kids use the slime scoop as an ice cream scoop or really want to see Janosz to have a conversation with the library ghosts and she…points him to a spell book?

I just need to know. Because sometimes I’m like “he can’t mean that..” and other times I’m like “No seriously…he can’t mean that”

Sav C wrote: August 31st, 2022, 3:40 pm
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: August 29th, 2022, 9:51 am If vigo comes back, I think Firehouse will review badly and there won’t be a 5th movie.
I agree. Vigo coming back would be just about the worst possible mistake they good make (unless they bring back Gozer again). It seems pretty clear from the ending on GBII that Vigo was destroyed. Sure, they could shoehorn him back in, but that would just cheapen his defeat in GBII. I want to see some new villains and obstacles.
That’s one of my problems with Gozer coming back in afterlife. It totally cheapens the win in 1984. It’s why I hated the emperor coming back in the new Star Wars trilogy.

You can’t bring back a villain and do nothing new or interesting with them. Gozer is less cool here than in 1984. The uncrossing the stream was kinda neat but having the GBs going right for that move made no sense to begin with. They crossed the stream to close the gate not just to kill Gozer. But it’s the first thing they try. Maybe Gozer could have at least done a flip? Lol

Man…That moment in GB’84 is so badass. The music? The hype? They are walking up like gunslingers in the Wild West. Bill Murray is cocky as shit. And when he says “let’s show this prehistoric bitch how we do things down town” I get chills. And Gozer is all like “give me your best shot” & does that awesome crouch down thing and that weird little vocal roar. Then comes the flip. *chefs kiss*

That’s the kinda tone that makes ghostbusters so effin cool, ya know? They even have moments like that in GB2. Who here doesn’t get pumped when Lady Liberty smashes the glass ceiling and the GB’s rope down? “I love it when you rough house!” A line that makes NO sense but somehow with the music, the editing and Bill Murray delivering the line with such gusto that you just buy it. Or when Ray is like “Hold it right there dead head! You want a baby? Go knock out some willing hell hound otherwise I’m giving you the count of 3 to get back in that painting where you belong” or in the courtroom scene when they put the packs on for the first time? It’s this weird feeling of cool, confident gunslingers.

Ivan Reitman filmed these guys like gunslingers in a western. That’s why I think it’s hard for me to accept these other filmmakers trying their hand at Ghostbusters because Ivan just had it down from a tone and directorial stand point. He made things funny, scary, epic, suspenseful, mysterious and sometimes all within the same scene. The editing, music and mood were so specific and the actors just add to this weird soup of awesomeness. The ghostbusters are badasses. They are framed like badasses.

I remember Jason talking about tips Ivan gave him and one of the tips he gave was “wind machines. You need more wind” and that’s it! That’s the kind of thing Ivan brings to it. The wind that blows Egon’s hair in the courtroom in GB2 during the lull before the chair pop. It’s one of those things that if it’s not there it doesn’t feel right but maybe you don’t always notice it. That’s the kinda shit I love.
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#4972274
Phoebe popping out on the gunner seat the second time around when on the bridge and her 1-on-1 shootout with Gozer with the cyclotron spinning are two of the most badass GB shots IMO. I especially like the gunner seat one.

I also get chills from the GB1 & 2 scenes u mentioned. I would also add when they approach the slime wall in GB2. Badass.
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#4972275
jonogunn wrote: September 1st, 2022, 10:14 pm Phoebe popping out on the gunner seat the second time around when on the bridge and her 1-on-1 shootout with Gozer with the cyclotron spinning are two of the most badass GB shots IMO. I especially like the gunner seat one.

I also get chills from the GB1 & 2 scenes u mentioned. I would also add when they approach the slime wall in GB2. Badass.
Phoebe got some cool moments for sure but the thing about those other shots were…they were mostly about the team,mya know?. “Ghostbusters”. And it’s wasn’t so much just the shots, though that’s part of it, it’s all of it. The dialogue, the editing, the music. Phoebe was a badass in those in those moments for sure. But, imo, they don’t come close to matching the vibe the the other 2 movies. That western gunslinger thing. Jason got some of it right but couldn’t bring it all together like his Pop. The gunner seat moment is def the closest part to achieve what I’m talking about tho.
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#4972277
RichardLess wrote: September 1st, 2022, 11:29 pm
jonogunn wrote: September 1st, 2022, 10:14 pm Phoebe popping out on the gunner seat the second time around when on the bridge and her 1-on-1 shootout with Gozer with the cyclotron spinning are two of the most badass GB shots IMO. I especially like the gunner seat one.

I also get chills from the GB1 & 2 scenes u mentioned. I would also add when they approach the slime wall in GB2. Badass.
Phoebe got some cool moments for sure but the thing about those other shots were…they were mostly about the team,mya know?. “Ghostbusters”. And it’s wasn’t so much just the shots, though that’s part of it, it’s all of it. The dialogue, the editing, the music. Phoebe was a badass in those in those moments for sure. But, imo, they don’t come close to matching the vibe the the other 2 movies. That western gunslinger thing. Jason got some of it right but couldn’t bring it all together like his Pop. The gunner seat moment is def the closest part to achieve what I’m talking about tho.
That is true. One of the things I was looking forward to prior to the release was seeing a team in full gear and packs but we never got that. (OG’s don’t count)
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#4972283
Alphagaia wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 12:21 am I dunno, I really liked that shot of Gozer emerging from the corn in it's skeletal form. It felt iconic and the way it happened felt new to me.

I wish Shandor and the town was more involved in the scenario, but I liked the set-up.
It was a neat shot for sure. But.. A skeleton felt new to you? A skeleton specifically in a corn field is new but I’ve seen that sort of imagery in other movies and we’ve seen skeletons in Ghostbusters before. It was different as far as Gozer is concerned so that’s something I guess. But I don’t think it felt “iconic”. Too many other movies have used corn fields in this kind of way for it to feel iconic for me. It was something different at least. When I say they don’t have her do anything new I mean abilities in her Gozer form. She’s so blah & lame as a villain here. When they had her do the finger lightning again and that’s it…man it was disappointing. I think I’ve said this before but…why didn’t Gozer do the destructor thing here? Do we know why? I didn’t see this in theatres so I imagine people who knew the film were waiting for the “choose the form” bit and they don’t do that. Gozer literally sits around chilling.

Like…your Jason Reitman, you’ve brought back Gozer…a supernatural God feared and worshipped throughout the cosmos. What are you going to have her do? They start in an interesting way by having her split buddy in half but it was more odd than anything. Like…what’s this guys deal? How is he alive? Is he alive? Why are his insides white? I think that moment would’ve been badass if Gozer would’ve done that to a Peck-like character. Now that would be cool. Problem with Jk Simmons and his entire bit is that they could’ve cut him out completely and the movie wouldn’t miss a beat. Nothing would change at all. That’s not indicative of good storytelling.

There just so many more interesting ways they could’ve gone. One is…we expect Gozer to come out but instead a god they didn’t expect is released. Something mysterious. “That isn’t Gozer!” And then the Gb’s can come in and answer our questions. “No. That’s Gozer’s…the only translation from the text that makes sense is “father” “ and then you’ve got not only something new but something connected to the theme of the movie. Or have Gozer take a different form. Or have her switch forms, she starts as something else, sees the OGB’s and in a “hey I remember you” sort of way switches to classic Gozer.

Another thing they could’ve done is do the “choose the form of the destructor” but have Pheobe use her wits to win the day by having Gozer turn into something like…a tiny pea. And she walks up raises her foot high and squishes it. Then we cut to the OGB’s who are all “shit. Why didn’t we think of that in ‘84?”. I guess maybe that’s anti climactic.

I dunno. What we got felt so unthought out or half baked.

I wonder what they do with all those traps now. Even if they were opened…Gozer can’t come back, right? Because the ritual hasn’t been completed.
#4972285
Well, I think we all know it's not just a skeleton. It's a whirling grainy mass that never settles in it's form with a face that skeletal, but not quite, as the vains, hairs and flesh stretch and resemble that cool picture a bit we got from that second form of Puft that sadly never passed the pre production phase. Add to that the music, the thunder, lightning, the close ups and how it lurges towards them. How it grabs and destroys that trap. Love it.

Edit; Also, that wrap around the coil of the proton stream. Absolutely, love that visual.

I'd agree just a skeleton would be boring, and I can understand it even the version I'm talking about doesn't do it for you, but that's not all what we got. The scene is much more!
Last edited by Alphagaia on September 2nd, 2022, 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#4972286
Sometimes I can’t tell if you are serious about these ideas or if they are jokes. They are jokes right?

You don’t really want to see the kids use the slime scoop as an ice cream scoop or really want to see Janosz to have a conversation with the library ghosts and she…points him to a spell book?

I just need to know. Because sometimes I’m like “he can’t mean that..” and other times I’m like “No seriously…he can’t mean that”
It's hard to tell with me being a constant, sarcastic, smart ass. It's like a box of chocolates. You never know what your going to get. Lol. But I do think Janosz would be that hidden gem of an unexpected villain. If done right.
#4972289
RichardLess wrote: September 1st, 2022, 8:44 pmThe uncrossing the stream was kinda neat but having the GBs going right for that move made no sense to begin with.
It was the one thing they knew they could do that could have an effect on Gozer... Why wouldn't they try what they knew first?
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#4972291
Kingpin wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 1:59 pm
RichardLess wrote: September 1st, 2022, 8:44 pmThe uncrossing the stream was kinda neat but having the GBs going right for that move made no sense to begin with.
It was the one thing they knew they could do that could have an effect on Gozer... Why wouldn't they try what they knew first?
. I mean A) there are kids around and crossing the streams is dangerous as shit and B) they don’t cross the streams at Gozer in the first movie so They had no idea what it would or wouldn’t do to her in GBA. They cross the streams to close the gateway in the first movie. Closing the gateway is what stops good ol Gozer. Not them firing streams at her.
In the first movie they fire on her & she disappears. Crossing the streams is a last resort sort of thing or should be. We all remember the whole “molecules exploding at the speed of light”. When they faced Vigo you’ll notice the first thing they didn’t try was crossing the streams.

In the first movie crossing the streams is heroic and dangerous. They figure they are going to die and by a stoke of luck they survive. This movie…they are surrounded by a bunch of kids and the first thing they try is crossing the streams. And you think that makes sense?? When they never crossed the streams directly at Gozer before?

I guess the only thing they can do is fire the beams. When that doesn’t work it’s stream crossing time I guess lol.

Alphagaia wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 9:22 am Well, I think we all know it's not just a skeleton. It's a whirling grainy mass that never settles in it's form with a face that skeletal, but not quite, as the vains, hairs and flesh stretch and resemble that cool picture a bit we got from that second form of Puft that sadly never passed the pre production phase. Add to that the music, the thunder, lightning, the close ups and how it lurges towards them. How it grabs and destroys that trap. Love it.

Edit; Also, that wrap around the coil of the proton stream. Absolutely, love that visual.

I'd agree just a skeleton would be boring, and I can understand it even the version I'm talking about doesn't do it for you, but that's not all what we got. The scene is much more!
Yeah true it’s more of a skeletal apparition. It reminds me of the mother box personification in Snyder’s Justice League.

But I guess you’re right. It’s not a Skeleton exactly but it’s still in the neighborhood. I didn’t find the imagery new or anything special but maybe that’s bad timing on the movies part because there’s something very similar released just 6 months or so prior.

I found the beginning with Egon more effective with the footsteps. That was cool. Then you look at all the awesome concept art with the sentinel terror dog…it’s horns scraping the roof. Wish they would’ve gone for that somewhere. I did like the fog coming down the chimney. Very close encounters of the third kind.
#4972294
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pm. I mean A) there are kids around and crossing the streams is dangerous as shit
And they survived doing it the first time, as dangerous as it was. They probably reluctantly rationalised they had to jump to it as quickly as they did rather than give Gozer any more time that could lead to the world being destroyed.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pmB) they don’t cross the streams at Gozer in the first movie so They had no idea what it would or wouldn’t do to her in GBA. They cross the streams to close the gateway in the first movie. Closing the gateway is what stops good ol Gozer. Not them firing streams at her.
They don't have Egon for the informed strategy (and to point out it only worked because it disrupted Gozer's portal), so they've little choice but to use the last resort option - it was the biggest weapon in their arsenal that they were aware of, and f****g around with trying to find some other option ran a pretty big risk of getting them and everyone else killed.

They've danced with Gozer once already and they know enough of the steps... Plus trying to take it out straight away before it can be given another destructor form is another big plus.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pmWhen they faced Vigo you’ll notice the first thing they didn’t try was crossing the streams.
Because Vigo wasn't a Gozer-level threat.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 4:00 pm I didn’t find the imagery new or anything special but maybe that’s bad timing on the movies part because there’s something very similar released just 6 months or so prior.
I can't say with certainty this is what Alpha meant, but I believe he meant it's a new visual for the Ghostbusters movies.

And you could potentially view it as a reference back to the unused concept from the first movie, of Gozer appearing as a sticky skeleton after the guys melted away the Stay Puft exterior.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 4:00 pmVery close encounters of the third kind.
More John Carpenter's The Fog to me. :)
#4972296
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:50 amI think I’ve said this before but..
At least six times.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:50 amAnother thing they could’ve done is do the “choose the form of the destructor” but have Pheobe use her wits to win the day by having Gozer turn into something like…a tiny pea. And she walks up raises her foot high and squishes it. Then we cut to the OGB’s who are all “shit. Why didn’t we think of that in ‘84?”. I guess maybe that’s anti climactic.
Guess? It is totally anti-climactic and would cheat the audience of a big finale.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:50 amI wonder what they do with all those traps now. Even if they were opened…Gozer can’t come back, right? Because the ritual hasn’t been completed.
That's definitely an open ended question. Presumably with no power source, the Traps are designed so they can't be accidentally opened until stored in a Containment Unit. But there's the question of can a Trap hold an entity indefinitely or would it break down eventually, hence requiring an eventual deposit into a Containment Unit which is built for long term storage? Or would storing all of Gozer, Zuul, Vinz, the P.K.E. cloud in one unit be too dangerous and require splitting up in several Containment Units?

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pm I mean A) there are kids around and crossing the streams is dangerous as shit and B) they don’t cross the streams at Gozer in the first movie so They had no idea what it would or wouldn’t do to her in GBA. They cross the streams to close the gateway in the first movie. Closing the gateway is what stops good ol Gozer. Not them firing streams at her.
In the first movie they fire on her & she disappears. Crossing the streams is a last resort sort of thing or should be. We all remember the whole “molecules exploding at the speed of light”. When they faced Vigo you’ll notice the first thing they didn’t try was crossing the streams.

In the first movie crossing the streams is heroic and dangerous. They figure they are going to die and by a stoke of luck they survive. This movie…they are surrounded by a bunch of kids and the first thing they try is crossing the streams. And you think that makes sense?? When they never crossed the streams directly at Gozer before?
It's what stops the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Their proton streams did not touch her in the first movie, she discorporated herself before contact was made as she was proceeding on with the ritual.

Yeah, they didn't try it on Vigo. But I'd bet Ivan and co. didn't want to rehash the same thing in the sequel, hence making the Slime Blowers, whereas in this movie which was a love letter to the first, of course it would be used. But the problem is the rules. We're locked into what Egon says in the first movie in 1984 and don't have the benefit of new exposition is what I think the main issue of contention is. We don't know what research was done after, if safeguards were added to the throwers as they did in TVG canon, there's no line which might have helped with the logic of them not going full neutronas to be on the safe side when they cross streams, in the first movie they crossed 4 streams into an open portal but in this movie they fired crossed 3 streams at a god so different scenarios, different outcome maybe -- there's a lot ambiguity/conflict that could have been fixed with an extra line.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pm because there’s something very similar released just 6 months or so prior.
What?
#4972300
mrmichaelt wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 5:34 pm
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:50 amI think I’ve said this before but..
At least six times.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:50 amAnother thing they could’ve done is do the “choose the form of the destructor” but have Pheobe use her wits to win the day by having Gozer turn into something like…a tiny pea. And she walks up raises her foot high and squishes it. Then we cut to the OGB’s who are all “shit. Why didn’t we think of that in ‘84?”. I guess maybe that’s anti climactic.
Guess? It is totally anti-climactic and would cheat the audience of a big finale.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:50 amI wonder what they do with all those traps now. Even if they were opened…Gozer can’t come back, right? Because the ritual hasn’t been completed.
That's definitely an open ended question. Presumably with no power source, the Traps are designed so they can't be accidentally opened until stored in a Containment Unit. But there's the question of can a Trap hold an entity indefinitely or would it break down eventually, hence requiring an eventual deposit into a Containment Unit which is built for long term storage? Or would storing all of Gozer, Zuul, Vinz, the P.K.E. cloud in one unit be too dangerous and require splitting up in several Containment Units?

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pm I mean A) there are kids around and crossing the streams is dangerous as shit and B) they don’t cross the streams at Gozer in the first movie so They had no idea what it would or wouldn’t do to her in GBA. They cross the streams to close the gateway in the first movie. Closing the gateway is what stops good ol Gozer. Not them firing streams at her.
In the first movie they fire on her & she disappears. Crossing the streams is a last resort sort of thing or should be. We all remember the whole “molecules exploding at the speed of light”. When they faced Vigo you’ll notice the first thing they didn’t try was crossing the streams.

In the first movie crossing the streams is heroic and dangerous. They figure they are going to die and by a stoke of luck they survive. This movie…they are surrounded by a bunch of kids and the first thing they try is crossing the streams. And you think that makes sense?? When they never crossed the streams directly at Gozer before?
It's what stops the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Their proton streams did not touch her in the first movie, she discorporated herself before contact was made as she was proceeding on with the ritual.

Yeah, they didn't try it on Vigo. But I'd bet Ivan and co. didn't want to rehash the same thing in the sequel, hence making the Slime Blowers, whereas in this movie which was a love letter to the first, of course it would be used. But the problem is the rules. We're locked into what Egon says in the first movie in 1984 and don't have the benefit of new exposition is what I think the main issue of contention is. We don't know what research was done after, if safeguards were added to the throwers as they did in TVG canon, there's no line which might have helped with the logic of them not going full neutronas to be on the safe side when they cross streams, in the first movie they crossed 4 streams into an open portal but in this movie they fired crossed 3 streams at a god so different scenarios, different outcome maybe -- there's a lot ambiguity/conflict that could have been fixed with an extra line.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pm because there’s something very similar released just 6 months or so prior.
What?
At least six? God damn. Thanks for keeping count. I tend to repeat myself.

At least six? God damn. Thanks for keeping count. I tend to repeat myself.
(Sorry I couldn’t refuse)

Yeah the pea thing would be anti climatic but then I’m sure you could do it in a way that it doesn’t feel like that. Plus there’s nothing like getting a joke out of playing with peoples expectations. People expect this big epic finale and the movie is all “nah. We are doing something different”. Granted had they done that I’m sure I’d be here bitching about how they did a stupid pea joke rather than have a big epic ending lol. For the 7th time.


Also the Stay Puft Marshmallow man is Gozer, right? It’s Gozer the Destructor. So they have totally have their beams touch Gozer. Just not as the female flat top version. The beams light her ass on fire! Gozer and Stay Puft are the same being. Just in different forms.

And yeah you could be totally right Re new information regarding stream crossing, that would be one of the benefits of following the OGB’s around a bit more. Excellent points all around.

The something similar released 6 months prior was Zack Snyder’s Justice League. There’s these things called mother boxes and there’s a moment when…well it’s a long story but needless to say the creatures came to mind when I saw Gozer’s desiccated form.

Would you all want an answer to the Gozer trap question or should they just let it be?

Kingpin wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 4:57 pm
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pm. I mean A) there are kids around and crossing the streams is dangerous as shit
And they survived doing it the first time, as dangerous as it was. They probably reluctantly rationalised they had to jump to it as quickly as they did rather than give Gozer any more time that could lead to the world being destroyed.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pmB) they don’t cross the streams at Gozer in the first movie so They had no idea what it would or wouldn’t do to her in GBA. They cross the streams to close the gateway in the first movie. Closing the gateway is what stops good ol Gozer. Not them firing streams at her.
They don't have Egon for the informed strategy (and to point out it only worked because it disrupted Gozer's portal), so they've little choice but to use the last resort option - it was the biggest weapon in their arsenal that they were aware of, and f****g around with trying to find some other option ran a pretty big risk of getting them and everyone else killed.

They've danced with Gozer once already and they know enough of the steps... Plus trying to take it out straight away before it can be given another destructor form is another big plus.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 3:46 pmWhen they faced Vigo you’ll notice the first thing they didn’t try was crossing the streams.
Because Vigo wasn't a Gozer-level threat.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 4:00 pm I didn’t find the imagery new or anything special but maybe that’s bad timing on the movies part because there’s something very similar released just 6 months or so prior.
I can't say with certainty this is what Alpha meant, but I believe he meant it's a new visual for the Ghostbusters movies.

And you could potentially view it as a reference back to the unused concept from the first movie, of Gozer appearing as a sticky skeleton after the guys melted away the Stay Puft exterior.
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 4:00 pmVery close encounters of the third kind.
More John Carpenter's The Fog to me. :)
I never actually seen The Fog. I’m hit or miss on John Carpenter. I love The Thing. Love Big Trouble in Little China. But never was a fan of Halloween or Escape from New York.

As for the GB’s going for the stream crossing right away. See it would be nice to hear the characters say these things you mention rather than us just guessing that’s the deal. We’ve never really had to guess at the GB’s motivation for what and why they do something. Know what I mean? The crossing the streams could be solved very easily with some dialogue and with a bit of a joke too.

Ray could be trying to explain this elaborate strategy hes concocted to stop Gozer and Venkman just interrupts him and says “screw it. This bitch took Egon. Let’s cross em boys”
Winston “what about the kids?”
Venkman “Well if they survive they’ll owe us one. If not…if anyone asks it was Ray’s idea”
Ray “Alright. We’ll cross em. For Egon!”
Venkman: And for the United States of America with Liberty & Justice for all. Let’s play ball!”

Something like that.

That’s maybe a bit better than them just going for it. I think? Am I crazy? Plus this way we get some extra character stuff. I dunno.
#4972302
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pm Also the Stay Puft Marshmallow man is Gozer, right? It’s Gozer the Destructor. So they have totally have their beams touch Gozer. Just not as the female flat top version. The beams light her ass on fire! Gozer and Stay Puft are the same being. Just in different forms.
Ehhh, essentially yes. But I've seen some interesting debate that Stay Puft is a separate entity created by Gozer that it inhabits rather than Gozer shapeshifting into it. They've certainly postulated that in different canons like RGB with Stay Puft going good eventually and developing its own identity and even in IDW. Basically, a homunculus that in theory any Class 5 entity and up with the power to animate could inhabit it.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pmThe something similar released 6 months prior was Zack Snyder’s Justice League. There’s these things called mother boxes and there’s a moment when…well it’s a long story but needless to say the creatures came to mind when I saw Gozer’s desiccated form.
Don't plan on watching that but I know my DC, I assume you're alluding to Parademons?

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pmWould you all want an answer to the Gozer trap question or should they just let it be?
If it makes sense to mention it in a scene, sure.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pm That’s maybe a bit better than them just going for it. I think? Am I crazy? Plus this way we get some extra character stuff. I dunno.
I wouldn't say it's a pet peeve of mine but like how the three canon movies just abruptly ends as soon as the big bad is defeated. We won, we're cool, fade to black. I get why. But part of me wants a 'debrief' kind of epilogue. Not necessarily another scene or a bonus scene on a Blu-ray release but it's why I'd so love some canon written material like case files, journals, and spells it all out. Aykroyd, Reitman, and Kenan could easily do a book like that and it would help them set down some rules for the universe as they write other scripts and flesh out the universe, imo. Hopefully what the comic book will do. But something longer in length like the Tobin's Spirit Guide Erik Burnham wrote for the IDW canon.
deadderek, Kingpin liked this
#4972308
In regards to the crossing the streams Egon’s theory that “it would be bad” was incorrect once proven in the GB1 finale that it didn’t kill them.

So it stands to reason they must have used the technique again and again in future busts. Perhaps maybe even tweak the packs to make the technique less volatile?

Man i just want firehouse news so we can focus on that. So many possibilities, so many opportunities to answer all our unanswered questions. I don’t think there’s anything else they can squeeze out of Afterlife other than an extended version
#4972314
mrmichaelt wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 8:26 pm
RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pm Also the Stay Puft Marshmallow man is Gozer, right? It’s Gozer the Destructor. So they have totally have their beams touch Gozer. Just not as the female flat top version. The beams light her ass on fire! Gozer and Stay Puft are the same being. Just in different forms.
Ehhh, essentially yes. But I've seen some interesting debate that Stay Puft is a separate entity created by Gozer that it inhabits rather than Gozer shapeshifting into it. They've certainly postulated that in different canons like RGB with Stay Puft going good eventually and developing its own identity and even in IDW. Basically, a homunculus that in theory any Class 5 entity and up with the power to animate could inhabit it.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pmThe something similar released 6 months prior was Zack Snyder’s Justice League. There’s these things called mother boxes and there’s a moment when…well it’s a long story but needless to say the creatures came to mind when I saw Gozer’s desiccated form.
Don't plan on watching that but I know my DC, I assume you're alluding to Parademons?

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pmWould you all want an answer to the Gozer trap question or should they just let it be?
If it makes sense to mention it in a scene, sure.

RichardLess wrote: September 2nd, 2022, 7:30 pm That’s maybe a bit better than them just going for it. I think? Am I crazy? Plus this way we get some extra character stuff. I dunno.
I wouldn't say it's a pet peeve of mine but like how the three canon movies just abruptly ends as soon as the big bad is defeated. We won, we're cool, fade to black. I get why. But part of me wants a 'debrief' kind of epilogue. Not necessarily another scene or a bonus scene on a Blu-ray release but it's why I'd so love some canon written material like case files, journals, and spells it all out. Aykroyd, Reitman, and Kenan could easily do a book like that and it would help them set down some rules for the universe as they write other scripts and flesh out the universe, imo. Hopefully what the comic book will do. But something longer in length like the Tobin's Spirit Guide Erik Burnham wrote for the IDW canon.
Interesting, Yeah I just follow what’s in the movies. For me personally if it happens anywhere outside the movies, it’s not part of the “canon”. But that’s def interesting Re Stay Puft. I hadnt read that. Of course we know sometimes the cartoons can impact the movies. “Slimer”. Jeanine’s hair. But I’ve always taken Gozer and Stay Puft as the exact same being. I didn’t know other people had some different ideas there. Vinz goes into it a bit with his “Giant Slor” monologue.

Nope not parademons. There’s a moment in the film when the character cyborg kinda “enters” motherboxes with his digital consciousness, he’s trying to stop the boxes from syncing and thus destroying the planet. Inside the motherboxes he’s greeted by his dead family members who try to placate and trick him but Cyborg realizes it’s a ruse and the characters then turn into demonic female desiccated beings, the personification of Darksied’s mother(tho that isn’t explained in the film that’s just part of the lore). If you like DC you should check it out. It’s far better than the awful theatrical cut. Granted it’s a bit on the long side but it’s split into chapters so it can be viewed in chunks.
#4972317
Crossing the streams is the only thing they know works versus Gozer. Granted, they had a portal they could close at the moment, but nothing else seemed to work.

Yes, Egon devised another way to finally stop Gozers, but they didn't know that.

So yeah, there were kids present, but if the OGB didn't do the only thing that worked versus Gozer those kids would be toast anyways.
The fate of the world was at stake there.
deadderek, Kingpin liked this
#4972320
But I’ve always taken Gozer and Stay Puft as the exact same being.
In the movie universe maybe. But in RGB they clearly have Staypuft displaying a whole different persona then Gozer's for a few episodes. Being friendly with slimer, helping the kids hospital, even helping the busters at some points. I always figured she summoned the destructor to do her dirty work. You know, because god's usually look down on Mortals like were insects. Staypuft was just her exterminator.
#4972321
Alphagaia wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 11:20 am Crossing the streams is the only thing they know works versus Gozer. Granted, they had a portal they could close at the moment, but nothing else seemed to work.

Yes, Egon devised another way to finally stop Gozers, but they didn't know that.

So yeah, there were kids present, but if the OGB didn't do the only thing that worked versus Gozer those kids would be toast anyways.
The fate of the world was at stake there.
Yes! Thank you for mentioning the fate of the world being at stake.

That’s been a thing of mine for this movie. In the first movie we know the fate of the world is at stake and we know the process of how it’s supposed to happen. But the whole destructor thing is never mentioned at all. So what did Gozer want? She doesn’t do the chose the form of your destructor. I’d say her plan was interrupted but she’s just chilling there when Pheobe does the “Fssh” joke.

That’s part of the problem with not having the paranormal detective aspect of the movie. The ghostbusters were always giving theories and explanations. So without them there’s all these unaddressed issues. Like what’s Shandor’s deal? He’s alive but not really? It would’ve been cool to have Ray and Winston maybe figuring things out. Openly asking the questions the audience has like “hey didn’t we destroy Gozer in 1984? Why is she back?” That kind of thing.

Part of my favourite thing in Ghostbusters is just the guys figuring shit out, explaining stuff. The pseudo science. The exposition is wonderfully done and Aykroyd is one of the all time exposition delivery masters. Everything he says sound super cool and interesting. You believe it. Like when he explains the architecture in the prison cell during GB1, it’s all Mumbo jumbo but it sounds so real and believable.

There’s a bit of the paranormal detective stuff in this movie but it doesn’t work as well because we the audience know most of the info before the characters do. It’s usually best to have audiences and characters finding out info together.

This is definitely a more intimate and smaller ghostbusters film. And part of that is the world never felt at any risk here. It was more personal, which is ok. The world doesn’t have to be always be in jeopardy, infact that can get a little old(see almost every comic book made now for examples).
#4972323
I feel most of it is addressed in the movie.

Gozer is back because it's return is foretold with the mural that shows the years. Phoebe mentions the apocalypse and it's explained a few times in the movie that Gozer wants to destroy the world.

I agree Gozer just sitting there is weird, but that's also what happened in the first movie. You can see her 'play' with her demon dogs before being interupted by the GB. She isn't going on a rampage right away, but let her minions rampage, just like in the first movie.

My guess is she was waiting for sacrifices, build up the pke as it was contained by Egon Packs closing the portal and/ or someone to chose her destructor form. What would she have done if the GB hadn't shown up to chose a form? Wait until someone showed up to investigate while her minions go on an rampage? That seems to be happening here.

Shandor needed more screen time and I guess it's cut from the movie. Him being buried there doesn't really need much explanation ofcourse. He knew the build up of psychic energy would return him from death so that's probably why he was placed there by his followers.

I agree more time to explain this would be nice, but you can connect those dots and it's not super important to the movie. A lose end, perhaps.

The mystery here is more what did Egon do and why did he do it, which segways into Gozer and it's backstory. We can see Phoebe work this out and yeah it's sad the OGB connecting those dots is mostly cut from the movie/repurposed.

It's what makes their sudden appearance so jarring. I like how they trap a Demon Dog though. That's new and it prevents the Destructor Question. Gozer seems more preoccupied with revenge on the OGB before going the Destructor Route. I'm glad they didn't do it, I agree it could have been addressed, but I feel it doesn't really need that extra clutter, especially when it doesn't lead to anything as Gozer is destroyed before it's mentioned.
mrmichaelt, Kingpin liked this
#4972324
I never did think Gozer was destroyed per say in the first movie. Ghosts and P.K.E. can't be destroyed i.e. the paranormal version of the Law of Conversation of Energy. You can look at it from different view points of what happens at the end of GB1:
1) Only Gozer's corporeal Destructor Form was destroyed by the explosion while it's ethereal form and P.K.E. was pulled through the portal along with Zuul and Vinz. Like you were a Halloween costume. You inhabit it like Gozer inhabits Stay Puft. Then you take off the costume and it's its own object that can be destroyed separate from you. In other words, the homunculus theory. Stay Puft is like a puppet and Gozer in spirit form is the puppet master inhabiting it.
or
2) Gozer/Stay is destroyed but enough of Gozer's P.K.E. got sucked into the portal at the end that some kind of spectral regeneration was taking place over the next 37 years and/or with Zuul and Vinz still intact, their union ritual always brings Gozer back to full power no matter what state is is in from the previous manifestation.

The October draft doesn't really describe what happens directly:
"The fireball reaches its maximum explosive force, then a sudden jet of air pressure occurs like a titanic vacuum cleaner in the sky and sucks the flaming mass of gasses and ash up through our atmosphere and right out of our dimension. The dark clouds disappear with it, leaving a beautiful clear blue sky over the whole area."
Kingpin, RichardLess liked this
#4972328
Alphagaia wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm I feel most of it is addressed in the movie.

Gozer is back because it's return is foretold with the mural that shows the years. Phoebe mentions the apocalypse and it's explained a few times in the movie that Gozer wants to destroy the world.

I agree Gozer just sitting there is weird, but that's also what happened in the first movie. You can see her 'play' with her demon dogs before being interupted by the GB. She isn't going on a rampage right away, but let her minions rampage, just like in the first movie.

My guess is she was waiting for sacrifices, build up the pke as it was contained by Egon Packs closing the portal and/ or someone to chose her destructor form. What would she have done if the GB hadn't shown up to chose a form? Wait until someone showed up to investigate while her minions go on an rampage? That seems to be happening here.

Shandor needed more screen time and I guess it's cut from the movie. Him being buried there doesn't really need much explanation ofcourse. He knew the build up of psychic energy would return him from death so that's probably why he was placed there by his followers.

I agree more time to explain this would be nice, but you can connect those dots and it's not super important to the movie. A lose end, perhaps.

The mystery here is more what did Egon do and why did he do it, which segways into Gozer and it's backstory. We can see Phoebe work this out and yeah it's sad the OGB connecting those dots is mostly cut from the movie/repurposed.

It's what makes their sudden appearance so jarring. I like how they trap a Demon Dog though. That's new and it prevents the Destructor Question. Gozer seems more preoccupied with revenge on the OGB before going the Destructor Route. I'm glad they didn't do it, I agree it could have been addressed, but I feel it doesn't really need that extra clutter, especially when it doesn't lead to anything as Gozer is destroyed before it's mentioned.
You feel like it’s address in the movie? I gotta disagree with you on that. Are somethings addressed? Sure.

Gozer is back because it’s foretold. There we go! This is something I feel like in the original movies they would’ve gotten into the weeds in a bit. Gozer comes around every so often. But…why? To destroy the world…again? What stopped her those other times? So…does she truly want to destroy the world or is there another goal? Why would it be foretold Gozer comes around and destroys the world…a bunch of times. Unless that’s not what being foretold. That’s the kinda thing I’m talking about. Now I’m sure a bunch of you all have some theories on that. But that doesn’t mean it’s addressed.

I gotta disagree with your comparison between what Gozer does in the first movie compared to Afterlife. Stroking her dog for a beat isn’t exactly laying around. That’s hardly the same. It’s not even in the same ballpark.

And again we see words like “my guess”…that’s the problem. I agree with you that’s probably what she was doing. Probably. But part of the fun of Ghostbusters is having the detective stuff. Tobin’s spirit guide, the occult reference net, Duke University studies on controlled psychokinesis. Now it’s true Pheobe did mess Gozer up at the temple. What did Gozer say to Pheobe? It wasn’t the “Are you a god” line was it? Wasn’t it something like… “do you want to die?”

Let’s say it’s true that Gozer doesn’t do the destructor bit because Pheobe interrupts her. After she’s back in one piece…the GB’s shoot at her and she does the uncrossing the streams thing. I’m interested why things didn’t progress the way they did in the original film where she disappears. When things don’t happen the way they should and no one comments on it and the movie doesn’t comment it…I’m left wondering why?
.

And Shandor. He’s more like a Zombie than a ghost. Or not even a zombie since he’s speaking & seems fine. It’s unlike anything we’ve seen. Having a moment of the GB’s using their knowledge to get into that would be cool. Think about the average person. They aren’t familiar with the lore as we are. I like Gozer ripping him in half. Him coming alive is something different too. But it’s so unimportant to anything that happens.

It’s one of those things were this movie needed to have the standard Ghostbusters human asshole. Like Peck. Maybe a Shandor relative. Make that moment play a bit more. But it’s…I wouldn’t want them to cut it but it’s so inconsequential.

And yeah…sure we can connect the dots. We can make things make sense, fit square pegs in round holes. It just doesn’t feel like “Ghostbusters” is all. And I guess it’s not suppose to. Technically this isn’t a standard ghostbusters movie. It’s more of a family drama caught up in a Ghostbusters story. It reminds me more of the J.J Abrams mystery box style of filmmaking. That can be fun. Not every movie needs to have shit spelt out. But like I’ve said before when we are dealing with supernatural stuff, what makes Ghostbusters interesting is all the pseudo science and mythology. I guess my problem is…I know fans like Mrmichaelt and others…I’m sure they can make anything fit. That’s the fun stuff of being a fan. I just have this feeling that the filmmakers didn’t put as much thought into it as we are. For example, and I hate bringing this up because it’s been talked about to death but the Stay Puft minis…I’ve heard many fan theories that works for alot of people. That’s cool. Buts hard not to think it was the filmmakers just putting in another reference for the hell of it. I don’t think for a second they had any other story goal than “oh! Mini Mr Stay Pufts! That’s a cool Easter egg”.

I do believe the filmmakers when they say they made this movie for the fans. A lot of the times when filmmakers say that— it’s bullshit. But I buy it and unfortunately I think that’s part of the problem. They put in so much stuff for fans and I don’t think they justified it for the story. Like Shandor. I wonder if their goal was simply “fans will love to finally see him in live action!” and that was the extent of their thinking process of justifying his presence.

mrmichaelt wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 5:51 pm I never did think Gozer was destroyed per say in the first movie. Ghosts and P.K.E. can't be destroyed i.e. the paranormal version of the Law of Conversation of Energy. You can look at it from different view points of what happens at the end of GB1:
1) Only Gozer's corporeal Destructor Form was destroyed by the explosion while it's ethereal form and P.K.E. was pulled through the portal along with Zuul and Vinz. Like you were a Halloween costume. You inhabit it like Gozer inhabits Stay Puft. Then you take off the costume and it's its own object that can be destroyed separate from you. In other words, the homunculus theory. Stay Puft is like a puppet and Gozer in spirit form is the puppet master inhabiting it.
or
2) Gozer/Stay is destroyed but enough of Gozer's P.K.E. got sucked into the portal at the end that some kind of spectral regeneration was taking place over the next 37 years and/or with Zuul and Vinz still intact, their union ritual always brings Gozer back to full power no matter what state is is in from the previous manifestation.

The October draft doesn't really describe what happens directly:
"The fireball reaches its maximum explosive force, then a sudden jet of air pressure occurs like a titanic vacuum cleaner in the sky and sucks the flaming mass of gasses and ash up through our atmosphere and right out of our dimension. The dark clouds disappear with it, leaving a beautiful clear blue sky over the whole area."
I dig that theory. Makes sense. I like it.
#4972330
Ok, so tonight I decided to return to the Fallon and Meyers interviews to see if anything would jump out at me that wouldn't have before seeing Afterlife. I'm not sure that anything really did, however I noticed something interesting about the infamous exchange between Dan and Bill on Seth's show. It's hard to make out with Dan and Bill talking over each other, but after Dan praises Harold and Bill shuts him down, it seems Bill engages in a little bit of projection. Like I said, it's hard to make stuff out with them talking over each other, but I think the following transcript is accurate:

Bill: You could have said that a long time ago and he would have liked that.
Dan: I did--I always talked him up.
Bill: He would've loved... He would've loved to have heard that.

It seems to me--and I'm no psychologist--that Bill regrets not showing enough gratitude for Harold, and was (likely unintentionally) suggesting that Dan hadn't, either. That's not to defend Bill saying "that's enough" or anything. The exchange just strikes me as interesting, as if Bill regrets not praising Harold while he was still with us.
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