[GuyX]

Lost perspective? Could u expand on that? That seems like an empty assertion when the perspective is the same.

I'll try.
It feels at times that Melody/Phoebe plot thread's contribution to the plot gets considered by some as an inconvenience, instead of what it adds to both the film's plot and the wider landscape of the Ghostbusters world: it helps to show Phoebe's isolation, it gives her the realm to voice her frustration and disenfranchisement without needing to add in some sort of disembodied narration, it gives us some new lore on the types of ghosts in the Ghostbusters world (even a whole new perspective we've never seen in the film canon), and to show Garraka's machinations in getting himself out of the orb...

Removing that thread as it exists breaks the movie. I know that things can be rewritten to fill the hole, but I'm not convinced they could necessarily be written better, and I definitely don't think some tête-à-tête (or tête-à-balle visqueuse) would somehow be an improvement on what was written, and that's why I made the remark about losing perspective... Do you genuinely believe a collection of scenes with Phoebe conversing with Slimer would be more effective than conversing with a human ghost that's fully cognisant?

Sure, Ghostbusters II established some sort of comraderie between Louis and Slimer, but that joke was already played out 36 years ago, and given the things Phoebe was dealing with I think the more respectful approach was either what we got, or a small variation on the scenes we got... Rather than her Venting to Slimer and getting a silent shrug of solidarity.

I feel the Melody scenes did help advance the plot, even if it wasn't at a breakneck pace, I don't think the theoretical Slimer scenes would've.

Melody doesn’t work.

I think she does work, if you're willing to let it.

Watching Phoebe pout, whine & be miserable? That’s not fun.

+ doing a half baked love story where the intent is clear but they’re too—for lack of better word—I dunno, “cowardly” to go all the way with it?

I believe you can lay the blame for that one somewhat on Sony and on the wider Hollywood film studio executive culture. Sony has shown it's willingness to participate in events like Los Angeles pride, but I suspect that when it comes to their films they're like Disney, they go for a cowardly option of not having more overt LGBTQ+ content in their films to appease conservative overseas markets, and possibly also conservative studio executives, and not lose money through public boycotts.

It surprises me that any1 thinks Slimer becoming more in line with the cartoons is a bad idea.

I think it worked in the cartoon, I'm not convinced it would work in the films, as Michael detailed.

There definitely should've been a montage, though... Maybe the team dealing with increasingly ice-related cases popping up across the city.

It’s interesting. I seem to recall a lot of people wishing the movies could replicate what the cartoons did.

I think Slimer is untapped live action real estate. I’ve seen Ghostbusters 2 quite a few times and showing two moments between Louis & Slimer hardly qualifies as “camaraderie”. Prejudging something as “played out” just isn’t how I feel one should look at things. Something is either funny or it’s not. It works or it doesn’t. It’s all in the execution. Can’t tell if it’s played out until it’s played.

I do wonder though if the dislike (not hate, dislike) of the Melody scenes stems from the frustration at seeing the original Ghostbusters so sparingly, I can understand feelings of resentment at the Melody scenes for their occupying screen time that could've been given to Ray, Winston, Janine and Peter... But... When the scenes also tie into furthering two of the film's main plot threads, they will naturally take priority over scenes tailored to please us old-school fans.

So part of the reason Melody doesn’t work for me is I think she breaks the unspoken rules of the ghostbusters universe. As far as live action movies are concerned.

What is a ghostbusters ghost? Maybe that different for everyone. To me? It’s a spirit almost incognizant that they are a dead person. Or that they use to be a person. They just…are. Like a song stuck on repeat. They can’t be as they were in life.

Ghosts are pests, not thinking feeling, conversing things. They are like gnats. Flies. Roaches.

Now yes the Mayor says HE was talking to Fiorello La Guardia in GB2, but what that means isn’t clear. And we don’t see it.

I would contrast that with the big bads of the movies. Gozer isn’t a ghost. It’s a Demi god. And Vigo was a warlock thing.

We see ghosts getting off the titanic. And they look and behave like the ghosts we expect. We see a humanoid library ghost. She doesn’t say “Hey could you please be quiet, this is a library”. Just “Shhhhh”.

The ghosts in ghostbusters aren’t exactly who they were in the real world when they lived and the reason for that is…

Ghostbusting. You start having ghosts like Melody and suddenly you are bringing up the ethical dilemma of shooting and trapping a spirit. And maybe that’s an avenue some of you want explored. I don’t. That’s not what Ghostbusters is or should be for me.

Now if you have Melody unable to communicate with Phoebe and THATS WHY Phoebe uses the soul sucker machine? Phoebe thinks it’s the only way she can hear what Melody has to say? And Melody infers thru, I don’t know, chess moves or game playing, that she has a message for her from someone. Maybe her grandpa?

Ok. Maybe that’s interesting.

But I think a more interesting story would be first Trevor, & Phoebe then maybe later joined by Ray and Podcast, they dig into Slimer as a character as he relates to the GB HQ & Ray. I think that’s a more interesting story by far & solves structural problems. Something where the characters we already know interact.

The scenes in the films aren't always meant to be fun; the confrontation with Dean Yeager, Ray's mortification at the mortgages, Peter's argument with Peck once their banter has given way to their anger, Dana getting frustrated because she doesn't think Peter is taking her case seriously, the growing realisation that the guys are in serious legal trouble at the courthouse, the guys getting locked up in Parkview, learning that the Ghostbusters broke up after Egon left the others in New York, Phoebe learning there was a kindred spirit in the family that she didn't get to know.

I appreciate the teen angst is a new angle in the wider Ghostbusters world (not forgetting Extreme Ghostbusters of course), but I don't feel it's as alienating as you do, I view it as part of Phoebe's path to maturing into her grandfather's successor.

I didn’t mean to imply Ghostbusters movies can’t have drama. Only that the drama did not work in this movie and the only drama that did work was Ray’s midlife stuff.

Teen angst can work. But it’s a difficult needle to thread. The actor has to be right, the script, the storyline. Phoebe is a major drag on this movie. She isn’t vibing with the rest of it. She is not likeable for large portions which is a direct contrast with Afterlife.

The whole Spengler family drama is not an angle I find interesting or remotely care about.

Everytime that’s on screen I’m thinking “let’s go back to Ray and Podcast & Nadeem”

Sure scenes aren’t always meant to be fun but I should want to engage with it and not be put off, annoyed or bored.

Part of the issue is story real estate. Maybe this plot could work in an episodic TV show. But in a Ghostdbusters movie? Teen angst isn’t remotely one of the stories or characters I want to be presented with unless it’s being made fun of.

Phoebe has what can be described as a border line suicide attempt here. She’s clearly depressed, isolated, alone. And to be with the person she wants she “kills” herself. Sort of. Were they going for that sort of feeling?

Funny stuff am I right folks? No I know GB isn’t always non stop yucks but…that’s not ideal.

[WCat2000]

While I did not like how rude Phoebe was towards Gary and Callie it was accurate for a teen in her situation...being left out of the group and told she’s too young to participate in things. She was still a kid in Afterlife. Her behavior was going to be different in both movies.

I personally like that some ghosts are actually spirits of people who are aware they’re ghosts. They should be. I mean they cannot all be pests, ghouls or evil villains. Cognizant human spirits must be part of the afterlife too. Whether they need help moving on or have some other reason for being around. That’s not far fetched for the subject of the afterlife.

I don’t mind Slimer having feelings but I think he works best as their annoying/friendly stray that hangs out at the firehouse because they don’t mind him being there. Nobody else would tolerate him. Trevor tries trapping him but just to show he could handle responsibility. By the end it didn’t matter and he unknowingly (or knowingly?) helped them by eating the pizza.

I agree Phoebe went too far by using the machine on herself but I don’t think they meant it as suicidal or depressed. Just that she made a bad decision because she trusted Melody. Like when people (teens) put themselves in danger by doing things they shouldn’t.

[Kingpin]

So part of the reason Melody doesn’t work for me is I think she breaks the unspoken rules of the ghostbusters universe. As far as live action movies are concerned.

What is a ghostbusters ghost? Maybe that different for everyone. To me? It’s a spirit almost incognizant that they are a dead person. Or that they use to be a person. They just…are. Like a song stuck on repeat. They can’t be as they were in life.

Ghosts are pests, not thinking feeling, conversing things. They are like gnats. Flies. Roaches.

Except... Egon already broke "the unspoken rules of the Ghostbusters universe". He may not talk, but he thinks, feels, and manages to communicate with his family.

(This is a good new example of why I feel the criticism of Melody is not reasonable, you're blaming her for stuff that Egon's ghost has already done for the most-part).

Now yes the Mayor says HE was talking to Fiorello La Guardia in GB2, but what that means isn’t clear.

He talked with La Guardia for an hour, the Mayor's remark can be used to signify some ghosts are substantive enough to hold a conversation with.

You start having ghosts like Melody and suddenly you are bringing up the ethical dilemma of shooting and trapping a spirit.

Which is something the first film touched on with one of the magazine covers, and the cartoons expanded on.

That’s not what Ghostbusters is or should be for me.

It depends on which iteration of Ghostbusters we're talking about.

Now if you have Melody unable to communicate with Phoebe and THATS WHY Phoebe uses the soul sucker machine?

Phoebe already provided most of the rationale behind why she did that; she wanted to be able to visit another plane of existence.

But I think a more interesting story would be first Trevor, & Phoebe then maybe later joined by Ray and Podcast, they dig into Slimer as a character as he relates to the GB HQ & Ray.

And how much plot real estate would that take up at the expense of the main villain's plot? Diving into Slimer's backstory feels more like the sort of thing you'd get in one of the cartoons because they have the luxury of devoting one 22-minute episode into exploring that. I'm not sure Slimer needs a backstory... But if I'm apprehensive, you can blame the "King Remils" comic for that one.

The whole Spengler family drama is not an angle I find interesting or remotely care about.

I get that, but something else I think tends to get forgotten is that this film isn't just being watched by/intended for us old-schoolers, it's also aimed at the younger audience who've been with us since Afterlife, some of the new people watching it are bound to be teenagers who may well be going through the same sort of social awkwardness and difficulty with their families as Phoebe is.

Phoebe has what can be described as a border line suicide attempt here.

And Phoebe set a timer to end her discorporated state, showing that she had no plan to make it permanent. It was a silly risk for her to take, definitely, but as I noted above:

she wanted to be able to visit another plane of existence.

[GuyX]

Except... Egon already broke "the unspoken rules of the Ghostbusters universe". He may not talk, but he thinks, feels, and manages to communicate with his family.

(This is a good new example of why I feel the criticism of Melody is not reasonable, you're blaming her for stuff that Egon's ghost has already done for the most-part).

Egon kinda breaks the rules too. I have problems with that. Now he doesn’t talk, which is denying Egon one of his major abilities in life. So it’s borderline. (The it crosses the border ). He only really “appears” before he crosses over. I was once a supporter of Egon appearing at the end but I fully admit that was more because I wanted to see Harold Ramis again as a Ghostbuster and the movie overrode my critical thinking. But that isn’t Harold Ramis. It’s an artificial facsimile & though I really like Afterlife the Egon stuff at the end leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Melody is unlike any ghost we’ve seen in the franchise. And since she operates as a plot device(tricking Phoebe for the main villain) I feel like it’s a cheat. It is a cheat.

He talked with La Guardia for an hour, the Mayor's remark can be used to signify some ghosts are substantive enough to hold a conversation with.

I already explained why the Mayor isn’t a cheat for me. We don’t see that. That could’ve worked any number of ways. It doesn’t break the rules. One *could* say Venkman talked with the Library ghost. See how that works?

Again these are just my own rules. This is how I see this universe. If you don’t agree, cool. But I feel like my rules are on solid footing for the 2 Reitman films.

Which is something the first film touched on with one of the magazine covers, and the cartoons expanded on.

Kingpin the magazine covers were meant as jokes not serious deliberation on the ethics of Ghostbusting.

And how much plot real estate would that take up at the expense of the main villain's plot? Diving into Slimer's backstory feels more like the sort of thing you'd get in one of the cartoons because they have the luxury of devoting one 22-minute episode into exploring that. I'm not sure Slimer needs a backstory... But if I'm apprehensive, you can blame the "King Remils" comic for that one.

I should clarify on the Slimer thing. I have zero interest in finding out about Slimer’s back story. I don’t want to know who he was when he alive. What he was. None of that. Don’t care. What Im interesting in is what happened to him between films. And I don’t want Slimer talking. Pulling out Melody from the plot, putting Phoebe and Trevor together, attempting to catch Slimer(you could even tie this into Phoebe being bummed she can’t be a ghostbusters out in the world, instead she’s doing it at home. Trevor could say something akin to “They said you couldn’t go out on calls. They didn’t say you couldn’t do one here”).

How could it work?
Trevor and Phoebe discover Slimer, look around for him, finally find him and are about to bust Slimer, trap him, when Ray gets in the way and says “No. No stop!” and Slimer sheepishly hides behind Ray like a scared dog.

Then cut to a scene with Ray, Trevor, Podcast, and Phoebe sitting down, as Ray tosses the odd snack to Slimer and Slimer kind of roams around aimlessly as Ray goes into how Slimer became part of the team. Ray:“It was Egon who made a connection with him” Podcast “Him? How do you know it’s a him” after long pause
Ray “You don’t wanna know. Just trust me. He’s a him!Anyways, the 3 of us ran all sorts of experiments. Made incredible breakthroughs. Slimer helped us learn all kinds of stuff, things we never even dreamed of. We were knocking on some radical doors. Quantum entanglement, god particles, dark matter, slime theory” Phoebe “You mean string theory” Ray “Do I?” Podcast “I still want to know how you know he’s a dude” Ray “Then one day, it all ended. Egon left. Took all our research, Slimer here was gone too. I thought maybe Egon took him but I guess he was just here all along”

Just something like that.

something else I think tends to get forgotten is that this film isn't just being watched by/intended for us old-schoolers, it's also aimed at the younger audience who've been with us since Afterlife, some of the new people watching it are bound to be teenagers who may well be going through the same sort of social awkwardness and difficulty with their families as Phoebe is.

I’m not sure why it matters who the film is intended for? The film has Phoebe going through teen angst, it has Ray going through a mid life crisis and it has Gary feeling like he isn’t a true parent.

Is the film intended for old people because Ray has a mid life crises? No. Is the film intended for teenagers because Phoebe happens to be one? I dont think so. These are just universal things that happen to most people.

It’s the filmmakers trying to make Ghostbusters into something other than a horror/comedy/action. The Ray stuff works. The Phoebe stuff does not. I don’t feel that way because I’m not a teenager.

Without getting into a whole mental health thing, what Phoebe does feels like a suicide/suicide ideation/self harm. Teenagers often do things like this for numerous reasons. The way Phoebe is played in this movie, she feels morose, depressed, isolated. No one to talk to but the dead.

A friend/loved one finding the near lifeless body of depressed, distressed, teenager all alone hardly feel like an accident given what we see in the film.

Maybe I’m reading too much into but the fact that I can even come close to making that connection in a Ghostbusters movie is fascinating.

These are the sort of moments I feel like are the province of Jason Reitman. He can’t just have a Ghostbusters movie be a Ghostbusters movie. We have to shoehorn these hallow sentiments that feel completely foreign to this world.

It’s almost like, “Hey everyone! Remember Egon Spengler? He was cool right? Except it turns out he was a terrible non existent father and because the actor who played him passed away we also have to say he’s passionate and obsessed with the return of Gozer and was unable to use his Spock like brain to convince ANYONE ELSE. Like his best friend who”—

Forget it. I have to overlook that otherwise Afterlife will cease becoming the enjoyable trip it is.

I went from loving Afterlife after seeing it in theaters. Loving it seeing it again in theaters. Then on blu ray. Then this place with some of the criticism from others started chipping away until my love turned to lust and lust turned to like.

[mrmichaelt]

Melody is unlike any ghost we’ve seen in the franchise. And since she operates as a plot device(tricking Phoebe for the main villain) I feel like it’s a cheat. It is a cheat.

That's not fair to call it a cheat. In the 4 canon movies, we haven't see the length and breadth of a Class 3/4 nor every single class of ghost either. For decades, we had class systems that point to a Class 4 being a fully formed manifestation and that's exactly what Melody is. We finally get one in the movie canon. All we really had was Vigo but he was Class 4 who souped himself up to Class 7 levels. Well, the Scoleri Brothers but they weren't standard Class 4 human manifestations (i.e. looks like a regular human being).

I already explained why the Mayor isn’t a cheat for me. We don’t see that. That could’ve worked any number of ways. It doesn’t break the rules. One *could* say Venkman talked with the Library ghost. See how that works?

Again these are just my own rules. This is how I see this universe. If you don’t agree, cool. But I feel like my rules are on solid footing for the 2 Reitman films.

You could interpret the Library ghost is just as conscious as Melody but she's 'at work' and adheres to the rules of her former workplace only talking to shush people and like most librarians gets pissed by rowdy people after awhile just in this case, the anger manifests in transmogrification.

Kingpin the magazine covers were meant as jokes not serious deliberation on the ethics of Ghostbusting.

In-universe, it surely was at least in a small intellectual community that indulged in The Atlantic and talked about the Ghostbusters as they sipped brandy by the fireplace in the men's club. But in the 2020s, could see this become more prolific in social media hashtag movements.

I should clarify on the Slimer thing. I have zero interest in finding out about Slimer’s back story. I don’t want to know who he was when he alive. What he was. None of that. Don’t care. What Im interesting in is what happened to him between films. And I don’t want Slimer talking. Pulling out Melody from the plot, putting Phoebe and Trevor together, attempting to catch Slimer(you could even tie this into Phoebe being bummed she can’t be a ghostbusters out in the world, instead she’s doing it at home. Trevor could say something akin to “They said you couldn’t go out on calls. They didn’t say you couldn’t do one here”).

Good idea but Trevor was intent on proving himself by catching Slimer by himself. On the other hand, it would have made sense to just 'transfer' Phoebe to the Engineer Corps help research and make stuff until she was of age to work in the field with the team. There was a hint that Phoebe and Lars would be as fun as Phoebe, Podcast, and Ray, Lars seems used to be the only smart guy in the room but then Phoebe shows up and is on par but way younger than him - there's potential there for comedy.

Trevor and Phoebe discover Slimer, look around for him, finally find him and are about to bust Slimer, trap him, when Ray gets in the way and says “No. No stop!” and Slimer sheepishly hides behind Ray like a scared dog.

Then cut to a scene with Ray, Trevor, Podcast, and Phoebe sitting down, as Ray tosses the odd snack to Slimer and Slimer kind of roams around aimlessly as Ray goes into how Slimer became part of the team. Ray:“It was Egon who made a connection with him” Podcast “Him? How do you know it’s a him” after long pause
Ray “You don’t wanna know. Just trust me. He’s a him!Anyways, the 3 of us ran all sorts of experiments. Made incredible breakthroughs. Slimer helped us learn all kinds of stuff, things we never even dreamed of. We were knocking on some radical doors. Quantum entanglement, god particles, dark matter, slime theory” Phoebe “You mean string theory” Ray “Do I?” Podcast “I still want to know how you know he’s a dude” Ray “Then one day, it all ended. Egon left. Took all our research, Slimer here was gone too. I thought maybe Egon took him but I guess he was just here all along”

Hmm, you prefer further incorporating aspects of RGB into the movie Slimer. Not everyone wants that. I just don't think he'll be a domesticated pet that people can toss food to or that they could study effectively.

But I agree some acknowledgement of Slimer's presence in the Firehouse by one of the OGB's is much needed. No way they were ignorant of him being there until Frozen Empire, Louis or Janine had to have told them.

Without getting into a whole mental health thing, what Phoebe does feels like a suicide/suicide ideation/self harm. Teenagers often do things like this for numerous reasons. The way Phoebe is played in this movie, she feels morose, depressed, isolated. No one to talk to but the dead.

I saw the Ionic Separator as more metaphor for Phoebe taking a hit of a cigarette/drug because she thinks the delinquent she meets is cool and just like her so she tries to be just like her. I've seen an extreme comparison to teens and arm cutting for a sense of control that turns out false.

Remember Egon Spengler? He was cool right? Except it turns out he was a terrible non existent father and because the actor who played him passed away we also have to say he’s passionate and obsessed with the return of Gozer and was unable to use his Spock like brain to convince ANYONE ELSE. Like his best friend who”—

I see why but don't agree with the "terrible father" angle. We still lack context to really know what happened, i.e. Callie's mother's side. My headcanon is she told Egon she was pregnant but would raise their child by herself. Egon agreed to it but still managed to keep tabs on Callie the only way he could, as a scientific observer.

I think in the final days of the Ghostbusters, they said Egon became obsessed with the end of the world not Gozer initially. I think it makes more sense he became obsessed with studying the apocalypse mythology because of two near-apocalypse events in only a span of 5 years. But with the business collapsing due to lack of calls, the other 3 were pragmatic and had to find new jobs than looking into myths for free but Egon stuck to it to the point of compromising his relationships that no one not even Ray could pull him out of and taking almost everything under their noses was the last straw. But only once he got to Summerville did he discover the Shandor-Gozer connection but by then the trust was broken and Ray didn't believe him when he called 10 years later since for all we know, he could have lived in multiple states before settling in Summerville and zeroing on Gozer.

[WCat2000]

Hey Slimer could have been the one to guard the containment unit after they shutdown. That he scared away anyone who tried to mess with it. I remember that’s one of the complaints people had. How was it completely ignored for so long?

I think that’d be a fun explanation. Since he liked staying at the firehouse he decided to protect it. The GB didn’t recapture him so he might as well return the favor by making sure nobody tampered with it. He was in there temporarily after all so I’m sure he’s grateful for that, haha.

He could have communicated to Winston (wouldn’t be that hard) that he’s been keeping people away. Apparently Winston and Janine didn’t tell the Spenglers about Slimer but that’s not as weird as not telling them about the Lab until now.

[Davideverona]

I would have retroactively changed Afterlife too.

As much as I liked it, I think that going forward focusing on the Spengler FAMILY wasn't a good move.

Let's focus only on Egon's daughter, let her discover what her dad did for a living, give her a little more backstory (who was her mother? What she remembers about the Ghostbusters activities in the 80s?), add some new characters and amp up a little the original Ghostbusters involvement.

[Chicken, He Clucked]

This is not necessarily a change I would make, and someone else may have suggested this already… do we think at any point in the script development the Melody plotline was intended for Trevor, not Phoebe. Would this have changed the movie’s reception?

After the Phoebe focus in Afterlife, she and Podcast could easily have been given the Slimer chase sequences and library scene in this movie, plus she’s still integral to the climax… so I don’t think it would affect Phoebe’s presence too much.

But if you start this movie with Lucky having a BF and Trevor feeling rejected, or maybe even have him barred from being a Ghostbuster too - then him encountering and falling for Melody and misusing the spirit extracting device - it gives him more to do in the movie, is perhaps more in keeping with his character than Phoebe’s, and you could go the full romance angle on it due to the more appropriate age of the characters/ respective actors.

I still think it works really well with Phoebe but I read a lot of criticism about it and… I wonder if it was intended for Trevor but was rewritten due to scheduling conflicts or something.

[Kingpin]

and you could go the full romance angle on it due to the more appropriate age of the characters/ respective actors.

...And not having to self-censor so as not to affront countries where homophobia is rife and still accepted in their culture.

You do raise a good point though, the idea of ripping your soul out using the extractor feels more like a Trevor move, than a Phoebe move.

I don't believe the Melody plotline was ever intended for Trevor, but we've not seen all of the early ideas for the film.

[camdudetenger2018]

there would be many more things i would change like the return of the extreme ghostbusters team lol and the introduction of there kids to the new team

[Light em Up]

I watched the film again last week for its anniversary. I wish I liked it more. I don't think it's awful by any means, but I do feel a sense of disappointment. I love the first 20 minutes. I thought it set the story up nicely, and was about on par with Afterlife. But then it starts to feel too much like a hodgepodge of different ideas. These ideas, while being solid enough on their own, don't work well together. But there are still moments that shine through, such as the Paranormal Research Center and the arcs of Ray and Grooberson.

By this point, most (if not all) of these changes have probably been suggested. But I'll still share my thoughts.

The key thing I would change is making Garraka much more of an active threat. Since the inspiration was RGB, I think it would be fitting for him to be featured like some of those villains. The ionic separator would successfully rip him from the orb, thus leading to him breaking free. I would make him a demon or demon king, rather than a god. It's implied that he never was an actual god. But I would do away with the word in general, just to switch things up after Gozer.

I would also remove his need for a ghost army. Afterlife already had ghosts flying through the air during its third act. I don't feel it's necessary to do it again here.

Garraka has to locate his horns, which Dadi had hidden in secured locations inside the city to stall him in the event that he escaped. He would begin his search by attacking an establishment that has horns displayed on their wall, and freezing citizens in the process. Members of the new team would be following his trail, while Ray and Phoebe head an investigation into Nadeem and the orb.

The dynamic between the GBs and Nadeem would remain mostly the same, only with the addition of them passing the blame back and forth a few times for what has happened. I think I would also expand a bit on Ray and Winston's tiff in the film. Prior to the story, Ray's age had caught up with him while on a job, and it almost led to someone being injured. As a result, Winston has banned him from going out on calls.

Garraka is successful in acquiring one of his horns, while the team reaches the other first. Upon the realization that it can't be destroyed, the decision is made to guard the horn in shifts. Garraka takes the form of Winston to get inside, where he's able to snag the remaining horn and freeze the city.

I wouldn't have the final confrontation take place inside the firehouse, but rather an exterior somewhere else in the city. Perhaps on a frozen river or a frozen bridge that is slowly beginning to fall apart---however the budget may not allow for it. I think that may be the reason why they delayed the frozen aspect of the film for as long as they did.

During the finale, Grooberson almost sacrifices himself for Phoebe, much like he did for Trevor in the film. I feel a moment like this could make her calling him 'Dad' feel a bit more earned. A heroic act by Ray turns the tide, thus redeeming him in the eyes of Winston. Things wrap up with Garraka being placed back inside the orb in order for Nadeem to pick up the mantle of guardian.

While I don't dislike the character of Melody or the arc she has, I do feel like having two B stories that are competing for screen time made the film too messy. When choosing between the two, I kept Nadeem due to him being directly tied to the villain's legend. Also, without keeping Garraka inside the orb for the bulk of the story, there wouldn't be much of a need for Melody at that point. I would have saved her for a different project.

There are other smaller things I would tweak. But this feels like the right place to cap it off.