[Kingpin]

And it's a shame because Aykroyd, Murray and Zeddemore are still (just) young enough to actually be the Ghostbusters we loved and have been waiting for.

In humour and banter, definitely... But spending good chunks of a movie running around with Proton Packs and traps? I'm afraid to say they aren't.

Comparing their appearance in Afterlife and Frozen Empire to the first two films, the original cast are moving around a lot less because they're three decades older now... Even in the scene where they're running from possessed Ecto-1 we only see their faces briefly, and we don't know how much of that sequence featured their stunt doubles. They don't have the sort of energy or fitness that allows them to go jogging along the streets of Manhattan or running about the Firehouse when crisis rears its head like in the old days.

Speaking as a guy who's 7-months shy of 40 I definitely don't have the same sort of stamina and physicality that I had in my 20s and early 30s... And both Bill and Dan are in their '70s and Ernie is in his '80s.
I don't think it would've been reasonable or healthy to ask them to do the sort of physical leg work in a new film as they did in Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II.

A movie with Bill, Dan and Ernie in the lead could very well have ended up like Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, where they just aren't able to convincingly portray the action on-screen because they're too old to be doing that sort of stuff.

I know it's a dream to see them step into the forefront one final time, but I genuinely believe too much time has passed for that to be a reality.
I believe we need to let the original Ghostbusters finally bow out... They should definitely play a part in "Ghostbusters 5", and provide critical knowledge that helps to resolve the major threat of the hypothetical film, but the job of passing the torch needs to be completed... Because being a front-line Ghostbuster, like a cop, like a soldier, like a firefighter, is a young person's job.

[mrmichaelt]

Give the OGs some credit, they trapped Garraka. Not like Phoebe and co. had a plan they were just shooting him.

Since they all knew how to use the equipment day one in NYC, the Spenglers and Gary's training took place over a year in Summerville implicitly, based on the events of the comic. I'm sure they rounded up any remaining ghosts, presumably Muncher among them.

But if you think about it, if you flip the perspective and do it from their POV, you could do an OG Ghostbusters movie/story parallel to the events of Afterlife both connecting in the final battle. The deleted scenes and bits of we've seen show Janine had a whole arc of visiting them and trying to figure out what to do with Egon's ashes. So it would sorta play out like a Seven Samurai with Janine getting them back together. In the very least, a comic or novel about it. Or would have neat if they cobbled the deleted material of Janine's visits into a canon short on the 4K/Blu-ray release. A canon video game would be cool but I doubt that would ever happen.

The formation of the engineer corps would be interesting, too. In one video, I recall Acaster said Lars sought out Winston for a job. There's gotta be more to that. Or how they caught Pukey, Possessor, and the other one.

[WCat2000]

Ray, Winston and Peter are definitely NOT “just young enough” to be the Ghostbusters. It’s funny some people think they are. That’s a bad case of Nostalgia Goggles.

They’re too old and would look very out place. The 2000s would have been the time. Not anymore. Lending some help in an emergency is fine but that’s it.

As for McKenna Grace outgrowing the role...we know she really is into GB. Plus she does other things. It’s not like she’s tired of it. As for the character, Phoebe is a teenager who’s mad she was kicked off the team. Her role was going to be written differently and it fits.

If the storyline was something else her portrayal might have been closer to Afterlife. If you don’t like how she comes off in FE or the Melody stuff, ok...but that’s how it was written. That’s not McKenna Grace losing interest in GB.

[BatDan]

It can work. Its not nostalgia as much as its finding the right balance.

Emotional / Business side/ Comedy story arc = OGS

Action / Paranormal side / Obstacle story arc = New Bs

Use the OGs to move the story beats forward—use the NewBs to fill in the action spots.

An Og or 2 can come with on a call for a scene or two to be “field monitor / crew chief “ — they dont even have to put a pack on—just give them a PKE and just act as Sargent

[Davideverona]

It can work. Its not nostalgia as much as its finding the right balance.

Emotional / Business side/ Comedy story arc = OGS

Action / Paranormal side / Obstacle story arc = New Bs

Use the OGs to move the story beats forward—use the NewBs to fill in the action spots.

An Og or 2 can come with on a call for a scene or two to be “field monitor / crew chief “ — they dont even have to put a pack on—just give them a PKE and just act as Sargent

A pke and the new glove thrower, so Murray won't be complaining about the packs weight anymore

Oh, the Buffalo Ghostbusters just announced on their Instagram profile that Jason will be announcing something. I'm thorn between animation (though they already said that there isn't much to show) and live action.

I'm still willing to bet on a live action announcement with Jason revealing who will write / direct the next chapter while he and Gil will act as producers.

[WCat2000]

It can work. Its not nostalgia as much as its finding the right balance.

Emotional / Business side/ Comedy story arc = OGS

Action / Paranormal side / Obstacle story arc = New Bs

Use the OGs to move the story beats forward—use the NewBs to fill in the action spots.

An Og or 2 can come with on a call for a scene or two to be “field monitor / crew chief “ — they dont even have to put a pack on—just give them a PKE and just act as Sargent

This is pretty much what FE does except we see it more from the Spenglers side of things.

I get wanting them in a significant role but I think working at the lab, bookstore and some investigating like at the library with a partner is the way to go. There’s enough new characters to go on calls without them. Tagging along with a PKE meter to “supervise” feels like an excuse. It’s a little demeaning actually.

[BatDan]

This is pretty much what FE does except we see it more from the Spenglers side of things.

Exactly. That’s the core of my critique, lol.

Too much focus on the Spenglers was the wrong approach, IMO. A more balanced look — especially through Winston’s perspective — would’ve made a huge difference. There was a major missed opportunity in not showing what reopening and expanding Ghostbusters as a full-blown business really looked like through his eyes.

Some of the strongest moments were his — like the PRC tour and that great little exchange on the staircase with Ray. Those scenes had weight.

Don’t get me wrong, I did enjoy the movie. But just like we pick apart GB2 with love, Frozen Empire deserves the same treatment.

[WCat2000]

This is pretty much what FE does except we see it more from the Spenglers side of things.

Exactly. That’s the core of my critique, lol.

Too much focus on the Spenglers was the wrong approach, IMO. A more balanced look — especially through Winston’s perspective — would’ve made a huge difference. There was a major missed opportunity in not showing what reopening and expanding Ghostbusters as a full-blown business really looked like through his eyes.

Some of the strongest moments were his — like the PRC tour and that great little exchange on the staircase with Ray. Those scenes had weight.

Don’t get me wrong, I did enjoy the movie. But just like we pick apart GB2 with love, Frozen Empire deserves the same treatment.

I agree seeing the business reopen and lab put together would have been cool but that also would have taken a lot of time away from the overall movie. Forcing Ray, Winston and Peter to still be working Ghostbusters is not the way to make up for that or GB3 taking so long. Their roles in Afterlife and FE are a good fit.

We can have more scenes with them together and the new members without joining calls. That’s doable. Ghostbusters never needed a field supervisor. They communicate with each other and work stuff out.

[Kingpin]

Having already had the original movie show the team opening up, and Ghostbusters II showing the team reopening, I don't feel we've lost all that much by skipping the second reopening of Ghostbusters Inc. in favour of starting Frozen Empire in medias res... You don't start every Star Trek movie by showing how each new department in Starfleet has come about, or how a new chapter in the rebellion has been established to fight against the Empire in Star Wars.

I'm wondering if the success of The Office is to blame for this focus on the staff meetings and hiring side of Ghostbusters Inc., because while I can concede there is comedy potential there, I think focussing too much on the business operation side runs the risk of taking too much time away from the ghost busting and the paranormal investigation side of things.
That really sounds like the sort of thing that's far more suitable for a TV series that has the flexibility of time to explore those angles with a little more detail than the two-hour runtime of a movie, where time is at much more of a premium.

I suppose the best example to my feeling is The X-Files, while I'm sure they featured meetings between Mulder, Scully and Skinner that served to move the plot forward, they rarely got in the way of the investigation of the "spooky of the week" because the spooky of the week was what people tuned in for.

[mrmichaelt]

That's what's good about having canon tie-in content. The first Dark Horse comic shows how the business reopens, them dealing with a ghost using a mood slime variant to power up. It was just the art was left a lot to be desired by a lot of fans.

[WCat2000]

I really want to get the tie-in comics but it’s just something I never get around to. I thought it’d be cool seeing the Spenglers move in but I’m fine with that happening off-screen. We saw them move to Summerville and discover Egon’s stuff. It’s nice seeing the Firehouse lived in.

[Davideverona]

So, Jason Reitman announcement: place your bet.

[d_osborn]

I bet Jason's demeanor during the announcement will be really animated!

[Davideverona]

Jason is donning a Spengler jumpsuit!

[BatDan]

Welp.

The charity thing is cool.

Definitely not what we were expecting though.

[Davideverona]

Welp.

The charity thing is cool.

Definitely not what we were expecting though.

What did he announce?

[BatDan]

A Sony sponsored ghostbusters charity hub

[Carpathian_Kitten]

Saw this on my first watch at home after the theatrical release but slipped my mind to post. Is this another scene where a character has been cut ala Winston in the Mayor's office? I'm sure that's Murray behind Phoebe in the Paranormal Research Centre...

[mrmichaelt]

Saw this on my first watch at home after the theatrical release but slipped my mind to post. Is this another scene where a character has been cut ala Winston in the Mayor's office? I'm sure that's Murray behind Phoebe in the Paranormal Research Centre...

Yes, we saw from various trailers that Peter was originally present when Winston was giving the team the tour of the Paranormal Research Center but his inclusion was removed and he doesn't debut until the Nadeem interview.

[BatDan]

Truly bizarre decision. Like why?

Bill woulda added so much more flare to an already really cool scene.

[mrmichaelt]

Truly bizarre decision. Like why?

Bill woulda added so much more flare to an already really cool scene.

Yeah, he showed up to set and you're cutting some of his scenes from the movie? Ok... But. I could see Gil Kenan liking his scene with the Nadeem interview so much he decided that should be how he 1st appears in the movie and leaving the PRC introduction as Winston's (yet Ray shows up anyway shrug). It's like Winston being removed from the Mayor's Office scene. I kinda get but kinda don't...

[Davideverona]

Something I haven't thought about #2

It's something I can't quite put my finger on, but I'll try to explain it anyway, maybe some of you will be able to elaborate further.

It's about how we never got The Gb3 we always wanted, even with Jason involved.

It's like they have so much reverence for the original material that they get lost in getting right the most little detail and loose focus on the grand design. They went to great lengths to find the right font for the "Summer 2020" teaser but doesn't explain how the OGB arrive to Summerville.
They show us how a Proton Pack works from the inside but cut Janine getting the guys back together.

Maybe another equally enthusiastic but less involved director would have made a movie with the grandkids of Egon Spengler and would have found a way to introduce the triumphant return of the Ghostbusters too.

Let's hope for Ghostbusters 5.

[Kingpin]

It's about how we never got The Gb3 we always wanted, even with Jason involved.

Even if Jason had done things differently and had Peter, Ray, Winston and Janine featured more prominently, we still wouldn't have gotten the "GB3" we always wanted because the principal cast had aged out of being able to do the rough-and-tumble of the first two films,

A Ghostbusters movie made in the 2020s was always going to need a bunch of new, younger characters to do the physical side of things... Be they the Spenglers, or a post-millennium equivalent of the Extreme Ghostbusters.


As for Jason, I don't think it was the details he got caught up in... I can admit that he might've got too caught on the story of the Spenglers and Phoebe at the expense of the veteran characters. I believe Gil tried to make up for that with Frozen Empire.

[BatDan]

Did i watch the same movies growing up ?

What “rough and tumble” did i miss?

Aside from the occasional wide shot with stunt doubles as with Gozers “then..Die!” bit ..The ghostbusting scenes was alot of standing around all schlocky with smartass lines. A lot of the action was held together by the damage the ghosts were creating or the proton blasts—like the Scoleri Brothers sequence.

Dont remember much in the way of Rambo/Die Hard-style tuck and roll like youre trying to revision.

In their old age, they can manage firing a proton stream and saying funny lines.

If Michael Keaton was able to come back as a 70+ year old Batman (and again in 2 unfinished movies btw) We knew it was mostly cgi and stunt doubles. But Everyone cheered anyway.

—anyway—No one was asking them to be the center again.. the torch was always meant to be passed, but a little more narrative focus and some balanced screen time shared with the new cast after all this time is where the critiques are coming from.

*For example—Seriously why spend money to have Bill there and only have him for limited time, only to severely cut down his role ?? the “hes a grower” quip from the deleted scene is the funniest line in the movie

[Kingpin]

What “rough and tumble” did i miss?

Running about the streets of New York, dashing away from an exploding Containment Unit, tumbling into sinkholes in the street, writhing about from getting blasted by energy on two separate occasions, stumbling down the staircase of an abandoned subterranean train station, jumping into a river of slime in said train station, and getting covered in slime.

I appreciate the roughest stuff was done by their stunt doubles, but Bill, Dan, Harold and Ernie also got their hands a little dirty during the filming as well.

In their old age, they can manage firing a proton stream and saying funny lines.

I'd dispute that they're up for doing that for the same amount of screen time as they did in '84 and '89.

If Michael Keaton was able to come back as a 70+ year old Batman (and again in 2 unfinished movies btw) We knew it was mostly cgi and stunt doubles. But Everyone cheered anyway.

Keaton was in far better shape than Bill and Dan were, and fortunately we're unlikely to see CG stand-ins for Ray, Peter and Winston would be a bit too obvious... I even kinda cringe at the scene where they get thrown at Ecto-1 by Gozer because I know they'd have been far more badly hurt by that than they appeared to be.

[mrmichaelt]

Free screening for NYC Parks’ Movies Under the Stars summer series at Gutenberg Playground in Manhattan tonight between 8-11 pm EST.
https://ghostbustersnews.com/2025/06/18 ... manhattan/

[joezlo]

What “rough and tumble” did i miss?

Running about the streets of New York, dashing away from an exploding Containment Unit, tumbling into sinkholes in the street, writhing about from getting blasted by energy on two separate occasions, stumbling down the staircase of an abandoned subterranean train station, jumping into a river of slime in said train station, and getting covered in slime.

I appreciate the roughest stuff was done by their stunt doubles, but Bill, Dan, Harold and Ernie also got their hands a little dirty during the filming as well.

In their old age, they can manage firing a proton stream and saying funny lines.

I'd dispute that they're up for doing that for the same amount of screen time as they did in '84 and '89.

If Michael Keaton was able to come back as a 70+ year old Batman (and again in 2 unfinished movies btw) We knew it was mostly cgi and stunt doubles. But Everyone cheered anyway.

Keaton was in far better shape than Bill and Dan were, and fortunately we're unlikely to see CG stand-ins for Ray, Peter and Winston would be a bit too obvious... I even kinda cringe at the scene where they get thrown at Ecto-1 by Gozer because I know they'd have been far more badly hurt by that than they appeared to be.

^ It's ok, the car broke the fall.

[One time]

Did i watch the same movies growing up ?

What “rough and tumble” did i miss?

Aside from the occasional wide shot with stunt doubles as with Gozers “then..Die!” bit ..The ghostbusting scenes was alot of standing around all schlocky with smartass lines. A lot of the action was held together by the damage the ghosts were creating or the proton blasts—like the Scoleri Brothers sequence.

Dont remember much in the way of Rambo/Die Hard-style tuck and roll like youre trying to revision.

In their old age, they can manage firing a proton stream and saying funny lines.

If Michael Keaton was able to come back as a 70+ year old Batman (and again in 2 unfinished movies btw) We knew it was mostly cgi and stunt doubles. But Everyone cheered anyway.

—anyway—No one was asking them to be the center again.. the torch was always meant to be passed, but a little more narrative focus and some balanced screen time shared with the new cast after all this time is where the critiques are coming from.

*For example—Seriously why spend money to have Bill there and only have him for limited time, only to severely cut down his role ?? the “hes a grower” quip from the deleted scene is the funniest line in the movie

Exactly. You are 100% right. Absolutely hit the nail on the head.

The Grooberson/Venkman deleted scene where Peter calls Gary a "kid" and just is the Venkman of the 80's is easily the best scene in all of Frozen Empire. That scene was what made the end of Afterlife so good, but in Frozen Empire. The rest of FE was just dry callbacks, magazine covers, Slimer, Ray's Bookstore, librarian ghost for 3 seconds, the library administrator (John Rothman) shocked on screen for 2 seconds, etc. All just dry meaningless callbacks, but no Ghostbusters riffing off each other.

What do I care about John Rothman if we can't even have the Ghostbusters riffing off each other like in the 80's? They can talk to Phoebe and Nadeem for ages but not joke with each other?

The chemistry between the Ghostbusters was always in how they spoke with each other. Not in the 8 seconds total scene time (out of 3.55 hours of GB1 and GB2) where they fall over.

But Frozen Empire didn't even have them speak to each other (apart from the scene between Winston and Ray where Winston chides Ray like a child to shut up and lie on a beach). Frankly that's an insult to any Ghostbusters fan, young or old.

It seems like we still have to do cheap Rian Johnsons in 2024 for money.

I know why they did it.

Studio decision: "Old GB fans are a dying breed --> they had Afterlife --> we need to introduce a new generation --> just give the old fans Magazine covers, Slimer and John Rothman and they will be happy."

Like people today have never seen Ghostbusters 1 and loved it or something.

I don't know, the reasons defending why the Ghostbusters shouldn't even be in speaking roles in a Ghostbusters movie is hard to understand.

Murray is in a long scene psychologically testing Nadeem but he's too old to talk to Aykroyd and Zeddemore?

[Kingpin]

A scene with Peter and Venkman would've been a good inclusion in Frozen Empire, but I feel the scene they actually filmed with Paul and Bill wasn't the scene to include (and I think it was the right call to cut it). The vibe in it feels rather wrong (like the scene between Peter, Ray, Egon and Winston at Peter's Apartment in Ghostbusters II, or the Nobel Prize scene deleted from the first film). I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but Bill's delivery feels a little off compared to his other scenes in the film.

I think maybe that deleted scene would've worked better had it been Gary and Ray or Gary and Winston discussing the Containment Unit.

[One time]

A scene with Peter and Venkman would've been a good inclusion in Frozen Empire, but I feel the scene they actually filmed with Paul and Bill wasn't the scene to include (and I think it was the right call to cut it). The vibe in it feels rather wrong (like the scene between Peter, Ray, Egon and Winston at Peter's Apartment in Ghostbusters II, or the Nobel Prize scene deleted from the first film). I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but Bill's delivery feels a little off compared to his other scenes in the film.

I think maybe that deleted scene would've worked better had it been Gary and Ray or Gary and Winston discussing the Containment Unit.

I respect your opinion.

I think that Venkman and Aykroyd or Zeddemore don't carry the same weight. Because in the modern incarnation Aykroyd is Podcast, Ramis is Phoebe. Grooberson is all the GB's rolled into one (the scientist in Spengler, the optimist in Stantz, the quick talker in the date with Callie in AF: "maybe she can take up pole dancing" (Venkman), etc.) In 1984 Venkman was the lead card. He was Ghostbusters. It's only natural for him to be talking to the "ultimate fan": Grooberson.

I also think there is a very tangible divide in the GB fandom between people who were introduced to the franchise in 1984 vs. people who were introduced to it in 1989 that filters down to almost every discussion. (GB vs RGB)