Discuss Ghostbusters: Afterlife, released on November 19, 2021 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4973857
“Somehow Palpatine Returned”

This an infamous meme/quote from Star Wars Episode 9 when the movie brushes off all the audiences questions about how The Emperor is still alive since he was blown up in the Death Star after being chucked down a well & exploding in a blue torrent of energy in Episode 6. It’s poor storytelling, it’s lazy and it’s the one thing everyone wants to know and is interested in. They just kinda skip over it. They give us a few crumbs but not the whole meal.

In Afterlife we have a similar issue. No one outright says “Somehow Gozer returned”(at least I don’t think they do) but it’s a huge issue that isn’t addressed. One of the things I’ve always appreciated & enjoyed about the first two Ghostbusters movies is the exposition. I think this is one of Dan Aykroyd’s most underrated talents as a writer and performer. When we get the information dump in the jail cell in the first film? It’s super interesting. It doesn’t feel lazy or haphazard. I compare it another master exposition scene in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” where Indiana Jones explains the ark of the covenant to the government men. What makes Ghostbusters cool is that it’s all made up. Indiana Jones gets an extra level of cool because…well…the Ark is a real artefact. But I digress…

Exposition is one of the hardest things to do in movies. You don’t want it to sound boring, you don’t want it to come off like you are talking directly to the audience. If you want to see an example of exposition at its worst, watch the live action adaptation of “Avatar the Last Airbender”. Ooph. It hurts.

But it’s always helps when you have someone like Dan Aykroyd delivering your exposition. Even in bad movies, like Pearl Harbor, he’s super skilled at it. He’s just has this voice and a cadence that makes things sound interesting and important. Harold Ramis is also a super important part of this equation. Because Egon is always the smartest guy in the room we the audience really want to listen and hear to what he has to say because it’s usually interesting & important. In the script when they describe Egon as a “new age Spock” it was a perfect description. Why? Because I consider Spock to be one of the best exposition characters ever invented. Think about it. Spock’s role is to explain things to the crew and captain(and thus the audience). Egon has a similar dynamic.

One of my issues that I’ve mentioned elsewhere on this forum is how Gozer is able to return after being destroyed in the first film. The terror dogs, Vinz and Zuul, and Gozer in his/her(they?) destructor form are all blown up and destroyed after the temple is destroyed. Yes I know some of you have theories on how that can happen, the same way Star Wars fans have theories on how Palp’s came back in Episode 9. But when I think about “why is it so hard to get a Ghostbusters movie done right?” exposition is really an important and often overlooked factor. The movie just doesn’t address it. And it’s an issue that kinda pops it’s head up a few times. Some might say those things don’t need addressing & that’s ok. But to me well delivered and interesting exposition is an important part of what makes Ghostbusters Ghostbusters & when I think of the GB movies that don’t work as well for me as the originals, the lack of well written and delivered exposition is a common denominator.

Just for fun I’m going to list some movies that I think have some awesome exposition. This is by no means a definitive list. Just some that jump out at me.

Star Wars
The Terminator
Ghostbusters
The Matrix
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Pirates of the Caribbean 1-3
Back to the Future
Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring
The Incredibles
All the Presidents Men
JFK
#4973860
It's possible that there's cut scenes that explain Gozer's return better. There's evidence that points to a cult having been involved in the movie but nothing like that was brought up in what we all saw.
#4973918
I always though GB1 managed to blow up the gateway between Gozers world and ours. There’s no reason an actual God would die.

I think in Afterlife Gozer ripped Shandor in half for what he did during GBTVG.

As of Afterlife, Gozer is still not dead, just trapped in many traps.

I think it’s kind of a shame, GB really needs to move on from Gozer by now, yet the new movie has to deal with Gozer yet again in some way. I think it would be neat if the new movie somehow links together all previous installments. Maybe introduce a new (actual historical) God that has been pulling the strings behind the curtain all along (maybe even since GB1). Maybe driving Egon crazy and influencing him to go to Summerville to stop Gozer? Ray saying: “And kid don’t get me wrong, I wanted to believe,… but the readings just didn’t add up”, would have been interesting.

Historians know that all mythology is supplementary. Most later gods (Zeus, Abrahamic God, etc.) are based on earlier gods (sky father, earth mother, etc). And the Mesopotamian Gods of the Sumerian era are around the first to have ever existed.

It would be good for the fanbase too. There really is nothing to dig into for a fan with “Gozer” beyond maybe a page and a half of info on the fan wiki. It was a made up character, supposedly proto-Sumerian but using a modern Germanic name for some reason. Same with Gozers’ two minions, Vinz and Zuul. Vinz is just the modern German abbreviation of Vincent.

If they would use actual historical Gods in the franchise the information for fans is near limitless. Maybe kind of like Assassin’s Creed has done so well. Tiptoeing around the limits of what is historically known and what is conjectured by historians.

Thematically it would also be interesting:
GB1: wrestling individual ghosts
GBA: wrestling with the idea of human afterlife
GBF: wrestling with an actual pantheon of Gods
Last edited by One time on October 28th, 2022, 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#4973921
One time wrote: October 27th, 2022, 4:48 pm I always though GB1 managed to blow up the gateway between Gozers world and ours. There’s no reason an actual God would die.

I think in Afterlife Gozer ripped Shandor in half for what he did during GBTVG.

As of Afterlife, Gozer is still not dead, just trapped in many traps.

I think it’s kind of a shame, GB really needs to move on from Gozer by now, yet the new movie has to deal with Gozer yet again in some way. I think it would be neat if the new movie somehow links together all previous installments. Maybe introduce a new (actual historical) God that has been pulling the strings behind the curtain all along (maybe even since GB1).

Historians know that all mythology is supplementary. Most later gods (Zeus, Abrahamic God, etc.) are based on earlier gods (sky father, earth mother, etc). And the Mesopotamian Gods of the Sumerian era are around the first to have ever existed.

It would be good for the fanbase too. There really is nothing to dig into for a fan with “Gozer” beyond maybe a page and a half of info on the fan wiki. It was a made up character, supposedly proto-Sumerian but using a modern Germanic name for some reason. Same with Gozers’ two minions, Vinz and Zuul. Vinz is just the modern German abbreviation of Vincent.

If they would use actual historical Gods in the franchise the information for fans is near limitless. Maybe kind of like Assassin’s Creed has done so well. Tiptoeing around the limits of what is historically known and what is conjectured by historians.
1. The VIdeo Game isn't canon to the movies.
2. " yet the new movie has to deal with Gozer yet again in some way." <--- Uhm...no. Not at all.
#4973926
Yeah, this thread isn't to rehash past discussions I hope so I won't and I'll just say the ambiguity issues could be vaporized with a canon novel written by Reitman and Kenan i.e. a journal by Egon during the time skip and includes all the exposition and explanations we could ever want. I think that's the best solution.
#4973930
mrmichaelt wrote: October 27th, 2022, 9:08 pm Yeah, this thread isn't to rehash past discussions I hope so I won't and I'll just say the ambiguity issues could be vaporized with a canon novel written by Reitman and Kenan i.e. a journal by Egon during the time skip and includes all the exposition and explanations we could ever want. I think that's the best solution.
thank you. I didn’t want this to turn into everyone theories and head cannon. Those have been covered elswheee Like you said that’s not what this is for.

What I’d like to see more than anything is the shooting script. What’s in there that’s not in the film we saw?

I really wish Dan would get involved with the writing. He’s such a key to what makes these movies work and it seems like he’s more passively involved when you just know he’d love to get creatively involved in a heart beat. He’s the best resource there is. You’ve got the guy who was a writer on the OG SNL & penned movies like Blues Brothers, the underrated Spies Like Us & Dragnet & Coneheads. He’s a weird off beat guy.

I remember hearing that “Alive Again” was going to be written by new blood & as excited as I was to get new progress on a GB3 at the time the fact that we weren’t getting a Dan & Harold original was really bothersome. Apparently Dan was involved on some level with those scripts but not as a credited writer. I just wanted him and Harold to do their thing. The John & Paul of comedy writing. Harold is John, Dan is Paul and Ivan is George Harrison. Joe Medjuck is Ringo.

Dan really brings the authenticity, the verisimilitude. I love to see his name on the script. Even if it’s just the story,
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#4973932
RichardLess wrote:I really wish Dan would get involved with the writing. He’s such a key to what makes these movies work and it seems like he’s more passively involved when you just know he’d love to get creatively involved in a heart beat. He’s the best resource there is.
He did rewrite some of his scenes during filming or do you mean as a consultant doing passes on drafts like he and Ramis did for The Video Game or an actual third co-writer who is writing the script with Reitman and Kenan?
#4973947
In Afterlife we have a similar issue. No one outright says “Somehow Gozer returned”(at least I don’t think they do) but it’s a huge issue that isn’t addressed.
My opinion is the complete opposite. GB1 and Afterlife clearly explain ghost activity and the first and second coming of Gozer, sometimes more between the lines, but mostly directly to the audience. Let's dive into this:

1) Ghost sightings and PKE activity
Ghosts have been rumored to exist for ages, centuries, millenia. The clue in Ghostbusters is that, although they really do exist, their appearances are so sporadic they are treated as legends and myths. Best hint at this is the Slimer bust. The manager clearly says the staff knows about the 12th floor and it's mysteries. So even before 1984 there have been sightings and hauntings, but only occasionally. But, as per the manager, it has never been that worse. What's the reason for that? PKE levels. What causes PKE levels to rise? Dimensional allignment. Ok, so I admit this is a bit of speculation on my side. Bear with me. To me both movies make it obvious that the spiritual world exists in another dimension, and that our dimension/reality and other dimensions are connected, but like planetary movement, they drift apart and can be near or close. So when the time comes, the dimensions align, portals open, PKE levels rise, hauntings and ghost activity rises. Judgement day, the dead rise, catastrophes, yada yada yada happens when the alignment is particular close or strong. And when you have no Ghostbusters nearby to save the world...again...and again! :)

2) Gozer 1984
Worshipped by Sumerians and Babylonians. So a couple of thousand years ago Gozer's dimension was so strongly and lastingly connected to our world that it manifested as a god-like entity and made quite an impression. Apparently high PKE levels have to trigger the portal to open-hence why Shandor constructed 55 Central Park West as a super-antenna to pull in and concentrate PKE. And as mentioned before, in GB1 only the portal was destroyed, not Gozer itself. It lost its hold in our world and vanished to it's dimension.

3) Gozer 2021
Again, Gozer was not destroyed, only the portal in New York. Ghost activity died down significantly between 1984 and 89, only the sorcery and evil of Vigo revived and maximized the PKE levels in the city. After he was defeated, GB's went out of business again (see above). But was New York City a part of Sumeria and Babylonia? Not quite, hu? This can only mean that other portals exist, all around the world. Egon found the Summerville mine and it's temple/portal. Remember the ancient map Grooberson freaks out about? A map of Summerville, drawn by ancient cultures way before the discovery of America! The prophecy years in the temple, as pointed out by the kids, all connect to incidents worldwide that relate to a potential failure of a new coming of Gozer-Tunguska, the volcano, heck you could even speculate that "1945" does not relate to the mining accident in Summerville but to the first nuclear bombs. The Manhattan project actually a cover-up to find a way to prevent Gozer? Who knows. Sadly Egon's plan initially fails, 2021 comes, dimensions align, PKE levels rise and ghosts appear/slip through the portal...we know how it went.

In short, GB1 and Afterlife do a pretty good job to explain the background of ghosts and Gozer. If someone would make a supercut of the following scenes you would have the whole story:
GB1
- Peter visits Dana after her rehearsal and gives her first details about Zuul and Gozer
- The big twinkie
- Vinz Clortho interview by Egon/Peter and Zuul
- Ray and Winston talk about the end of the world
- jail scene
- cross the streams

Afterlife
- Grooberson explains what the Ghostbusters are
- Podcast reads Tobin's Spirit Guide
- Phoebe calls Ray
- the kids meet in Spinners, explore the mine
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#4973948
mrmichaelt wrote: October 27th, 2022, 11:49 pm
RichardLess wrote:I really wish Dan would get involved with the writing. He’s such a key to what makes these movies work and it seems like he’s more passively involved when you just know he’d love to get creatively involved in a heart beat. He’s the best resource there is.
He did rewrite some of his scenes during filming or do you mean as a consultant doing passes on drafts like he and Ramis did for The Video Game or an actual third co-writer who is writing the script with Reitman and Kenan?
The latter. Writing the script with Jason Reitman from get go.

When you say he re wrote his GBA scenes during filming, do you mean like in an improv kinda way? Or he actually rewrote script pages? If so that’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that. Do you remember where that was talked about? I’d love to read about it.

I always thought Ivan deserved a writing credit on the first film. We know he Dan & Harold had that infamous Martha’s Vineyard draft. Problem is tho is he’s a producer and there writers guild is veeeeery strict about Producers receiving writing credits
Ecto24601 wrote: October 28th, 2022, 8:51 am
In Afterlife we have a similar issue. No one outright says “Somehow Gozer returned”(at least I don’t think they do) but it’s a huge issue that isn’t addressed.
My opinion is the complete opposite. GB1 and Afterlife clearly explain ghost activity and the first and second coming of Gozer, sometimes more between the lines, but mostly directly to the audience. Let's dive into this:

1) Ghost sightings and PKE activity
Ghosts have been rumored to exist for ages, centuries, millenia. The clue in Ghostbusters is that, although they really do exist, their appearances are so sporadic they are treated as legends and myths. Best hint at this is the Slimer bust. The manager clearly says the staff knows about the 12th floor and it's mysteries. So even before 1984 there have been sightings and hauntings, but only occasionally. But, as per the manager, it has never been that worse. What's the reason for that? PKE levels. What causes PKE levels to rise? Dimensional allignment. Ok, so I admit this is a bit of speculation on my side. Bear with me. To me both movies make it obvious that the spiritual world exists in another dimension, and that our dimension/reality and other dimensions are connected, but like planetary movement, they drift apart and can be near or close. So when the time comes, the dimensions align, portals open, PKE levels rise, hauntings and ghost activity rises. Judgement day, the dead rise, catastrophes, yada yada yada happens when the alignment is particular close or strong. And when you have no Ghostbusters nearby to save the world...again...and again! :)

2) Gozer 1984
Worshipped by Sumerians and Babylonians. So a couple of thousand years ago Gozer's dimension was so strongly and lastingly connected to our world that it manifested as a god-like entity and made quite an impression. Apparently high PKE levels have to trigger the portal to open-hence why Shandor constructed 55 Central Park West as a super-antenna to pull in and concentrate PKE. And as mentioned before, in GB1 only the portal was destroyed, not Gozer itself. It lost its hold in our world and vanished to it's dimension.

3) Gozer 2021
Again, Gozer was not destroyed, only the portal in New York. Ghost activity died down significantly between 1984 and 89, only the sorcery and evil of Vigo revived and maximized the PKE levels in the city. After he was defeated, GB's went out of business again (see above). But was New York City a part of Sumeria and Babylonia? Not quite, hu? This can only mean that other portals exist, all around the world. Egon found the Summerville mine and it's temple/portal. Remember the ancient map Grooberson freaks out about? A map of Summerville, drawn by ancient cultures way before the discovery of America! The prophecy years in the temple, as pointed out by the kids, all connect to incidents worldwide that relate to a potential failure of a new coming of Gozer-Tunguska, the volcano, heck you could even speculate that "1945" does not relate to the mining accident in Summerville but to the first nuclear bombs. The Manhattan project actually a cover-up to find a way to prevent Gozer? Who knows. Sadly Egon's plan initially fails, 2021 comes, dimensions align, PKE levels rise and ghosts appear/slip through the portal...we know how it went.

In short, GB1 and Afterlife do a pretty good job to explain the background of ghosts and Gozer. If someone would make a supercut of the following scenes you would have the whole story:
GB1
- Peter visits Dana after her rehearsal and gives her first details about Zuul and Gozer
- The big twinkie
- Vinz Clortho interview by Egon/Peter and Zuul
- Ray and Winston talk about the end of the world
- jail scene
- cross the streams

Afterlife
- Grooberson explains what the Ghostbusters are
- Podcast reads Tobin's Spirit Guide
- Phoebe calls Ray
- the kids meet in Spinners, explore the mine
I didn’t say there was NO exposition. I’m saying compared to the other films it’s not nearly as well done & things happen to leave you gojng…”huh?” When the original film might’ve given a nice Aykroydesq exposition sequence.

Think of the scene in the jail or the scene in the car with Winston & Ray or the Twinkie bit. There’s nothing as impactful as that where not only is information conveyed, but it’s conveyed in interesting ways.

I’ve brought this up elsewhere, and again, I’m not looking for why fans think they know this happened, I’ve read the theories, but I think there could’ve been great ways to have exposition about “Hey…didn’t they destroy Gozer in 1984? He was transformed into a Marshmallow man as part of the Gozerian ritual and destroyed. Same with Zuul & Vinz” then we have a character like Grooberson or Ray or whoever comes up with some cool exposition & mythology about why it’s happening again and what it all means & the bigger picture. They find Egon’s research & then combine it with stuff they find out themselves. Stuff like that.

Or…You could have Podcast & Pheobe doing research & going “Wait. It says here that in 1984 the Marshmallow Man was Gozer in a form conjured up by one of the Ghostbusters! That’s what it says in the autobiography of Winston Zeddemore” “Who? Wait..he’s the rich dude right?” “Yeah he gives a blow by blow account of what happened in ‘84 in his 2nd autobiography ‘Tools, Talent & Soul: How I Went from a Steady Paycheque to 7 Figures by Winston Zeddemore’ oh and look at this! Arsenio Hall wrote the forward” “Who?” “Arensio Hall. Apparently he played Winston in the movie version” “Wait. So if Gozer was a conjured up Marshmallow Man in 1984 & destroyed, what the hell were they doing in a Walmart & 3 inches tall?” And then some techno pseudo science Mumbo jumbo is mentioned.
#4973955
Ecto24601 wrote: October 28th, 2022, 8:51 am
Remember the ancient map Grooberson freaks out about? A map of Summerville, drawn by ancient cultures way before the discovery of America!
I agree with your post for 99%. Apart from this: a map of Summerville would not have been drawn by Ancient Sumerians.

1. Ancient Sumerians did not cross the Mediterranean let alone the Atlantic.

2. The city of Summerville did not exist in 6000 B.C.

3. As far as I understand Summerville had no PKE significance until Shandor built his project (temple) to draw PKE energy into that area (and have Gozer return) in the 19th century. Ancient Sumerians (6000 B.C.) would have had no link to anything in the Summerville location. Also America was not uninhabited by humans in 6000 BC. The first humans to settle America did so 13000 BC and at the time of the Sumerians America was up to the Folsom culture.

As far as I understand it, the followers of Shandor created that map in the 19th century and wrote it in the ancestral language of the Sumerians they looked up to.


I agree with RichardLess too. The exposition was very weak in GBA.

1. Why were there miniature copies of the 1984 Gozer destructor form Stay Puft Marshmallow man running around in Summerville?

2. Why would Shandor mine raw Selenium in Summerville and then transport it all the way to to NYC to build 55 Central Park West to summon Gozer when he already built the temple in Summerville to summon Gozer?

3. Why would Shandor build 55 Central Park west as an antenna to harness PKE energy to bring the second coming of Gozer -while at the same time- building the temple in Summerville to do exactly the same thing? Wouldn’t Gozer have gone: “Make up your mind pal, where do you want me to manifest?”. (We know the answer: lazy writing).

4. It’s a shame now when someone asks:
“Remember when the Ghostbusters beat Gozer?” we are left with the answer:

“When?

That time they closed an inter dimensional portal, reversed a four fold dimensional crossrip in the middle of NYC blowing the top 3 floors off a skyscraper

Or the time on that little dirt field in Oklahoma?”

But talking about these “Gozer” problems of exposition really ignore the “elephant in the room” of exposition in GBA of why data driven scientist Ray doubted his data driven scientist buddy Egon and caused Egon to rob the Ghostbusters. It’s that last question that most people want an answer to and one that the writers have an opportunity to address (maybe with a huge twist) in Firehouse.

But let’s not go there again shall we.
Last edited by One time on October 28th, 2022, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4973956
RichardLess wrote: October 28th, 2022, 9:02 am When you say he re wrote his GBA scenes during filming, do you mean like in an improv kinda way? Or he actually rewrote script pages? If so that’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that. Do you remember where that was talked about? I’d love to read about it.
Off the top of my head, I know Jason mentioned it at least once here:
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/ghostb ... -spoilers/
#4973959
One time wrote: October 28th, 2022, 2:41 pm
Ecto24601 wrote: October 28th, 2022, 8:51 am
Remember the ancient map Grooberson freaks out about? A map of Summerville, drawn by ancient cultures way before the discovery of America!
I agree with your post for 99%. Apart from this: a map of Summerville would not have been drawn by Ancient Sumerians.

1. Ancient Sumerians did not cross the Mediterranean let alone the Atlantic.

2. The city of Summerville did not exist in 6000 B.C.

3. As far as I understand Summerville had no PKE significance until Shandor built his project (temple) to draw PKE energy into that area (and have Gozer return) in the 19th century. Ancient Sumerians (6000 B.C.) would have had no link to anything in the Summerville location. Also America was not uninhabited by humans in 6000 BC. The first humans to settle America did so 13000 BC and at the time of the Sumerians America was up to the Folsom culture.

As far as I understand it, the followers of Shandor created that map in the 19th century and wrote it in the ancestral language of the Sumerians they looked up to.


I agree with RichardLess too. The exposition was very weak in GBA.

1. Why were there miniature copies of the 1984 Gozer destructor form Stay Puft Marshmallow man running around in Summerville?

2. Why would Shandor mine raw Selenium in Summerville and then transport it all the way to to NYC to build 55 Central Park West to summon Gozer when he already built the temple in Summerville to summon Gozer?

3. Why would Shandor build 55 Central Park west as an antenna to harness PKE energy to bring the second coming of Gozer -while at the same time- building the temple in Summerville to do exactly the same thing? Wouldn’t Gozer have gone: “Make up your mind pal, where do you want me to manifest?”. (We know the answer: lazy writing).

4. It’s a shame now when someone asks:
“Remember when the Ghostbusters beat Gozer?” we are left with the answer:

“When?

That time they closed an inter dimensional portal, reversed a four fold dimensional crossrip in the middle of NYC blowing the top 3 floors of a skyscraper

Or the time on that little dirt field in Oklahoma?”

But talking about these “Gozer” problems of exposition really ignore the “elephant in the room” of exposition in GBA of why data driven scientist Ray doubted his data driven scientist buddy Egon and caused Egon to rob the Ghostbusters. It’s that last question that most people want an answer to and one that the writers have an opportunity to address (maybe with a huge twist) in Firehouse.

But let’s not go there again shall we.
Exactly. 100%.

It would almost be like if in GB1 Mr. Stay Puft shows up and…it’s not mentioned why or how.

And yeah it’s not something I really want to get into here but we all know there’s no world Ray isn’t with Egon all the way until the end. It almost makes more sense for the opposite to happen. Ray is the one whose obsessed and Egon doesn’t buy it.

Honestly for me Harold passing away was such a big loss creatively and personally. I always thought Ghostbusters could withstand Bill Murray’s absence so long as you have Ray & Egon. I’ve always thought I could just watch a movie of those two. Forget “Ghostbusters”. Call it’s “Ray and Egon” lol. They hang out at Ray’s bookstore, solving mysteries. I just love the dynamic between those two. The chemistry? It’s wonderful. All they care about is the science. Nothing else. No time for love life or movie nights. Just the science.

But the chemistry? That’s one of the things that’s impossible to fake. The chemistry between the original guys is so good. And in Afterlife I saw it with Phoebe and Podcast. I’m kinda shocked Logan Kim hasn’t been getting cast in more because he’s got the goods. His charisma is off the charts for a kid his age.
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#4973961
RichardLess wrote: October 28th, 2022, 6:30 pm
Exactly. 100%.

It would almost be like if in GB1 Mr. Stay Puft shows up and…it’s not mentioned why or how.

And yeah it’s not something I really want to get into here but we all know there’s no world Ray isn’t with Egon all the way until the end. It almost makes more sense for the opposite to happen. Ray is the one whose obsessed and Egon doesn’t buy it.

Honestly for me Harold passing away was such a big loss creatively and personally. I always thought Ghostbusters could withstand Bill Murray’s absence so long as you have Ray & Egon. I’ve always thought I could just watch a movie of those two. Forget “Ghostbusters”. Call it’s “Ray and Egon” lol. They hang out at Ray’s bookstore, solving mysteries. I just love the dynamic between those two. The chemistry? It’s wonderful. All they care about is the science. Nothing else. No time for love life or movie nights. Just the science.

But the chemistry? That’s one of the things that’s impossible to fake. The chemistry between the original guys is so good. And in Afterlife I saw it with Phoebe and Podcast. I’m kinda shocked Logan Kim hasn’t been getting cast in more because he’s got the goods. His charisma is off the charts for a kid his age.
Yeah.

It amazes me that one single fact is overlooked every time someone dives into Ghostbusters thematically. In fact the only time in recent memory I’ve heard someone say it was Harold Ramis and they used his words as the closing note on the documentary “Cleaning up the town”.

I don’t remember his exact words but something like: Ghostbusters deals with that age old question of human mortality. What -really- happens to us when we die. He said that whatever it may be, if we approach that question with positivity and optimism (Stantz), knowledge and science (Spengler), pragmatism (Zeddemore) and humor (Venkman) then we can overcome anything.

That is what made those characters so memorable and useful for layered exposition. They completed each other thematically. This is also the reason Terminal Reality chose to keep The Rookie character anonymous and mute throughout GBTVG.

In writing GBA they kind of tried to do that but didn’t fully succeed. Phoebe is obviously Egon, Podcast is obviously Ray, but Ray dialled up to 20 with a massive element of devilishness in his character (“should we open it? 😊”, “…I say we fight”). Kind of like a modern 2020 over the top version of Ray (similar to how Hangman in Top Gun Maverick was a modern over the top version of 80’s self confident Iceman in the original Top Gun.)

The other characters in GBA, Trevor and Lucky weren’t really anything,… contrasting to Phoebe and Podcast.

And that limits what you can do exposition wise while at the same time keeping it interesting.

So we get Grooberson, who character wise is intended to be 5 people: All the original Ghostbusters rolled up into one personality + the average Ghostbusters fan.

Egon: “Science is pure, an absolute, an answer to all the madness”
Ray: “Oooh the really spooky one??”
Venkman: “Kids who go here aren’t too bright… Hey Colin”, “Maybe she’ll take up pole dancing”
Zeddemore: “…yeah and liable”
The average Ghostbusters fan: “Whoa! Killer replica!”.

I don’t wanna get off topic but I’m trying to make a point how characters and exposition are linked.
#4973984
Davideverona wrote: October 29th, 2022, 2:20 am And the biggest of all: why is Gozer returning? Who set up the temple and why? Who stopped Gozer before 1984? Why there is almost no people in Summerville? When the ghosts start running amok (amok! Amok! Amok! Amok!!) there is virtually no one who screams and runs away. Where are Podcast parents?
Something tells me they are going to go down the route that Podcast is an orphan.

/offtopic
#4974006
I just assumed Podcast is a latchkey kid and we didn't need exposition on his parents.

RichardLess wrote:
Alphagaia wrote: October 29th, 2022, 7:51 am Funny. This feels like Egon trying to convince the rest Gozer is back and failing.
What did you mean by this?
Us fans trying to convince each other of our conclusions/theories/headcanon is like Egon calling up Ray and telling him Gozer is coming back.
Alphagaia liked this
#4974010
mrmichaelt wrote: October 29th, 2022, 5:59 pm I just assumed Podcast is a latchkey kid and we didn't need exposition on his parents.
RichardLess wrote: What did you mean by this?
Us fans trying to convince each other of our conclusions/theories/headcanon is like Egon calling up Ray and telling him Gozer is coming back.
I wondered if that’s what was meant but I wasn’t sure since this topic has mostly steered away from the theories and head canon stuff.

Oh I checked out the link you provided about Dan Aykroyd and Jason mentioned something fuel isotopes. I’m trying to remember but does Ray say anything about fuel isotopes in that phone conversation? It doesn’t ring a bell.
#4974014
RichardLess wrote: October 29th, 2022, 7:01 pm Oh I checked out the link you provided about Dan Aykroyd and Jason mentioned something fuel isotopes. I’m trying to remember but does Ray say anything about fuel isotopes in that phone conversation? It doesn’t ring a bell.
01:07:47-01:08:00, Ray Stantz says: "One morning, I go to work and Ecto-1, our old Cadillac, is gone, his neutrona thrower, collider pack, all the traps, 16 ounces of fuel isotope, all gone! He cleaned us out. Now we were the dead ones."
RichardLess liked this
#4974032
mrmichaelt wrote: October 29th, 2022, 11:13 pm
RichardLess wrote: October 29th, 2022, 7:01 pm Oh I checked out the link you provided about Dan Aykroyd and Jason mentioned something fuel isotopes. I’m trying to remember but does Ray say anything about fuel isotopes in that phone conversation? It doesn’t ring a bell.
01:07:47-01:08:00, Ray Stantz says: "One morning, I go to work and Ecto-1, our old Cadillac, is gone, his neutrona thrower, collider pack, all the traps, 16 ounces of fuel isotope, all gone! He cleaned us out. Now we were the dead ones."
Well there ya go! I must not have mentally caught that part. Interesting.

Also interesting is that he calls it a “collider pack”.
#4974033
RichardLess wrote: October 30th, 2022, 5:42 pm
mrmichaelt wrote: October 29th, 2022, 11:13 pm
01:07:47-01:08:00, Ray Stantz says: "One morning, I go to work and Ecto-1, our old Cadillac, is gone, his neutrona thrower, collider pack, all the traps, 16 ounces of fuel isotope, all gone! He cleaned us out. Now we were the dead ones."
Well there ya go! I must not have mentally caught that part. Interesting.

Also interesting is that he calls it a “collider pack”.

I think that was a nod to GB1 where Venkman calls the pack a positron collider.
deadderek, mrmichaelt liked this
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