Discuss Ghostbusters: Afterlife, released on November 19, 2021 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4962089
Saving the world or not, why did they choose to have him abandon his family and cut off all contact? He couldn't call them and tell them why he couldn't leave Summerville? What am I missing here?
This Post Contains Spoilers
Sav C liked this
#4962092
We know nothing about Egon, Peter, or Ray prior to Venkman electrocuting students in GB1. We don't even know if Egon MENTIONED his family to Ray and Peter as Ray seemed legitimately shocked when Phoebe said she was his granddaughter.

We know Callie was born in 1983 and that Egon DID keep tabs on her through her life OR he reached out to her mother for information about Callie after things fell apart with the Ghostbusters to have some kind of connection to SOMETHING after starting his one man crusade against Gozer in Summerville.

This is me just grasping at theories with the information we're given in the movie. Now, unless this info is cleared up in some official media or a sequel, we may never know what the hell happened to the Spengler marriage.
#4962098
I think it actually makes a lot of sense and adds depth to the character of Egon.

In all of GB1 and GB2 he is a reclusive character. Yeah he is nerdy and everything but it’s like there’s more to him than that. He seems like he is hiding something as well. He is never relaxed. He never smiles. It’s always like he is in a state of urgency. I’ve met people like that, who have kids they don’t tell you about. They have this sense of urgency or seriousness that is hard to explain.

How distant he acts with Janine in GB1, even though she shows interest. In fact, he may not even know he has a child, but he may have a question mark in his head.

To me it was probably with his first sweetheart, maybe she tricked him….. something that went bad, which is why he became even more of a nerd and shut out all women. His significant other tricking him to have kids without him knowing would make sense with Callie’s character being rebellious. Her mother (Egon’s spouse) would probably be even worse than she is in terms of being a handful. And turn Egon completely off from relationships.
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By Paco
#4962103
One time wrote:I think it actually makes a lot of sense and adds depth to the character of Egon.

In all of GB1 and GB2 he is a reclusive character. Yeah he is nerdy and everything but it’s like there’s more to him than that. He seems like he is hiding something as well. He is never relaxed. He never smiles. It’s always like he is in a state of urgency. I’ve met people like that, who have kids they don’t tell you about. They have this sense of urgency or seriousness that is hard to explain.

How distant he acts with Janine in GB1, even though she shows interest. In fact, he may not even know he has a child, but he may have a question mark in his head.

To me it was probably with his first sweetheart, maybe she tricked him….. something that went bad, which is why he became even more of a nerd and shut out all women. His significant other tricking him to have kids without him knowing would make sense with Callie’s character being rebellious. Her mother (Egon’s spouse) would probably be even worse than she is in terms of being a handful. And turn Egon completely off from relationships.
that kind of logic makes sense, at least to egon. its been suggested that spengler might have been on the spectrum given his narrow-mindedness and the fact that he once tried to perform trepanation on himself. perhaps the biggest clue would be the fact that he had to rely on financial assistance from Janine to keep his work at the farmhouse going rather than just getting a job. A man with his credentials could have easily gotten a juicy defense contractor gig or a major university. While people are quick to point out his past as a pariah from the New York events, times do change as do moods.
#4962255
We really don't know what happened, which may be part of the issue. We really only know that Callie says he abandoned her and she didn't know him. Maybe, as was suggested, he didn't even know Callie existed and found out too late. When he found out he had a daughter, she was already grown and he didn't know how to deal with the situation.

What I wish they had spent more time on was the dissolution of his relationship with Ray and the others. Reitman claims that GB2 was still canon, from what I understand, but it seems like they erased those events from this movie's lore based on what Ray said. Ray says that Egon started talking about the end of the world and stole all the equipment, but that just doesn't make sense the way it was explained. They needed to spend a little more time on that.

Why would Ray not believe him? Why would Egon be the conspiracy nut instead of Ray? Why wouldn't Egon have shown evidence? I can get Ray being upset that Egon was driving customers away and effectively shut them down, but I really would like to know why Egon went obsessive and why no one believed him of all people, especially after what they had been through. A few more lines would have been nice explaining this.
Q-man liked this
#4962629
These are the bigger things overall we as fans have to "deal with" the guys are normal guys. They've been successful, bankrupt, in relationships, separated.

Peter asks Phoebe what Callie's name is. He may have known Egon had a daughter but didn't know anything else. Spengler did not seem the "lets sit down and talk about families" guy. Winston has kids by Afterlife and we don't know anything else there. Peter and Dana are married but we don't know what Oscar's up to or if they have children together. It wasn't needed to tell the afterlife story. I'm hoping future projects will get into that more. I'd love the 3 guys to come back running the business and it's franchise offices in future projects. Gives time to get into each of the guys families the way afterlife did with Egon. Maybe we'll learn why he wasn't in Callie's life, who was her mom, who was her Ex. Where are Winston's family?, does Ray have one? Plenty of info for the original guys to talk about
Last edited by RealGhostbusterJay on December 5th, 2021, 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kingpin liked this
#4963078
kind2311 wrote: November 29th, 2021, 8:03 pm
Saving the world or not, why did they choose to have him abandon his family and cut off all contact? He couldn't call them and tell them why he couldn't leave Summerville? What am I missing here?
This Post Contains Spoilers
I'm reminded of Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan. "I did what you wanted. I stayed away." It might've been a situation between Egon and his Daughter's Mother. Happens all the time.
#4963082
I have a co-worker. Let's call him Steven.

Steven dated this girl, Nancy for a little while. Nancy got pregnant. Steven said he would support her, no matter what. Nancy went kind of crazy, claimed she got an abortion, and moved from the U.S. New England area to the West Coast. Three years later, Nancy was back in town, visiting family. Steven's friend saw her with a little girl, who looked to be about three years old. Steven found Nancy's facebook profile and saw the little girl for himself. A spitting image of Steven. He made attempts to get in touch with Nancy to inquire about paternity, and Nancy would not speak with him.

Steven then got the courts involved and a paternity test was ordered. Nancy fled. Steven had to hire a private investigator to track her down. Nancy had moved again to the Carolinas. Eventually Nancy had to submit to a paternity test, and Steven was in fact the father.

I mention this because crazy things can happen. Maybe Egon had a one night stand and never heard from the woman again. Egon then had to watch from afar because his fling did not want him in her life for whatever reason. It seems out of character for Egon, but then again, he did sleep with mood slime.
mrmichaelt, elussya, Arch27 liked this
#4963152
The thing I'm not keen on is that a lot of the speculation revolves around one of Callie's parents having to be the "villain". I prefer the option that maintains the canon of the movie without resulting in vilifying either parent:

Egon and Callie's mother reached a mutual and amiable agreement: that Egon would provide financial support from afar, and Callie's mother would send him updates on how Callie was doing, but due to the nature of his work/relationship he wouldn't have an active role in her life.

I imagine for a while Egon was satisfied with this arrangement, but as he got older and saw whatever he saw in regards to the other Ghostbusters' families before he left for Summerville, he started to reevaluate his position, even regret it.

I'd go with Callie's mother either being a peer of Egon's when he was an academic or student at Columbia, rather than one of his students. I don't see Egon being unprofessional and sleeping with his students like Venkman tried to.
mrmichaelt, LT86, fixer79 liked this
#4963154
That's pretty reasonable. He got the photos from somewhere. I believe he did also send financial assistance for the family when he could. Because Callie is not a science liking person I don't think the mom was a science peer but likely a teacher or some sort of academic. Perhaps Egon didn't want to interfere with the way she was being raised and Callie again was raised to know who her father was and what he did however him feeling he was staying away for her benefit became resentment on her end as uncaring.

To be honest I had stayed spoiler free sorta hoping Phoebe would just test the pack and do the gunner seat scene but eventually Grooberson and Callie would throw the suits on and work with the OG's on the climax while the kids assisted with the RTV trap etc. Ahh well.
Kingpin liked this
#4963219
I think it is easy to think there was some sort of Egon and Callie's mom because of the strong negative reaction we get from her in the movie.

However we see the wall of photos so I am hoping that there was some sort of communications between Egon and the mom.

One can also explain the negative reaction from Callie due to her situation of having just been evicted and having no money. She could be directing that anger towards Egon.
#4970995
I've got a bit of a theory that might make some of you feel better about Egon being an absent father. One night I was watching The Big Bang Theory ( I don't remember which episode) But it was towards the beginning of Sheldon's and Amy's relationship and they were talking about having a baby as some sort of science experiment.

To me this seems like a total Egon thing to do. Supposing he found someone like Amy that was also a scientist willing to participate in such an experiment. Remember he tried drill a hole into his head once. This is a man that is willing to go to extremes for science. Regardless if it was all for science I'm sure Callie wouldn't take it lightly and would feel like he abandoned her and would definitely HATE science knowing she was the experiment.

This would also explain how he got all of the pictures and information about her. The mother could have been keeping him updated.
Thoughts?
CitizenBuster, Arch27 liked this
#4971081
I’ll just copy and paste what I posted over on BluRay.

The way I picture it is Egon obviously had a relationship with someone before they became GBs and the girl (Callie’s mom) did not want to stay because he was dedicated to studying the supernatural/paranormal...which she thought would lead to nowhere. That he was wasting his time and would not be able to make a living because it was not a “real” job. Doesn’t mean they hated each other but they broke up and he kept tabs on his daughter. After it did work out and they became GBs it’s safe to assume she did not want to get involved with ghosts and potential danger (look what happened to Oscar).

This might not be the way they write it but I think the situation is perfectly believable. A lot of people have kids from past relationships. -

I’ll add Callie must have assumed Egon abandoned them for no good reason. By the time she learned about him and the GBs the business was struggling or closed and he disappeared. She clearly thought he didn’t care and was selfish.
#4971107
It makes sense that Callie’s mother left Egon and hid her. To protect her (by association) from a father whose day job was battling actual demons.

What surprised me much more than the daughter, was Ray not believing Egon. That was far fetched and not realistic.

Every time Egon measured something he was like “check these readings Ray” or “this doesn’t look good Ray”.

And Ray would verify. They were the closest 2 original GB’s.

I mean, they battled actual Gods together. What “sounds crazy” after that?

For Ray to suddenly stop believing Egon’s worries went beyond the “believability” line and crossed over into weak script writing.

EDIT: Maybe as a plot of Ghostbusters 4: Firehouse, some alternate spectral source (apart from Gozer, perhaps another Sumerian God, a rival to Gozer; Tiamat like in GBTVG?) drove Egon’s mind to go to Summerville, pending the imminent arrival of Gozer. Affected Egon’ interpretation of the data, but only in Egon’s mind, to hide itself from Gozer.

Perhaps that “alternate spectral source” drove Egon literally mad and Ray had legitimate concerns as Egon was starting to show symptoms of clinical madness. Something actually affecting Egon’s logic and science would exonerate Ray of the unrealistic “not believing Egon”.
CitizenBuster liked this
#4971127
One time wrote: July 3rd, 2022, 4:55 pm It makes sense that Callie’s mother left Egon and hid her.
There's nothing currently suggesting Callie's mother hid her from Egon.
One time wrote: July 3rd, 2022, 4:55 pmThat was far fetched and not realistic.
It depends a lot on how Egon was acting at that point in his life. Ray indicated that Egon had been becoming increasingly disconnected from the Ghostbusters business and even getting outright dismissive of the customers they were still getting:
Ray Stantz wrote:he wasn’t helping. We went from ten calls a week to one if we were lucky. Egon started to tell people that their ghost problems didn’t matter because the world was coming to an end. He got spooky. Freaked me out.
It probably knocked Ray to see the logical and common-sensible member of the team act that way... It could even be that things escalated so quickly with Egon that he'd left before Ray and the others had a chance to speak with him about what was going on.

I do agree that things could've been explained in more detail, giving a better idea behind both Ray and Egon's respective trains of thought... Whether we'll get that remains to be seen. I get the feeling that with Afterlife having very much been a story about dwelling on the past, that with Egon's spirit now at rest, "Firehouse" will probably be looking towards the future of the characters and the company.
One time liked this
#4971129
Kingpin wrote: July 4th, 2022, 11:16 am
One time wrote: July 3rd, 2022, 4:55 pm It makes sense that Callie’s mother left Egon and hid her.
There's nothing currently suggesting Callie's mother hid her from Egon.
One time wrote: July 3rd, 2022, 4:55 pmThat was far fetched and not realistic.
It depends a lot on how Egon was acting at that point in his life. Ray indicated that Egon had been becoming increasingly disconnected from the Ghostbusters business and even getting outright dismissive of the customers they were still getting:
Ray Stantz wrote:he wasn’t helping. We went from ten calls a week to one if we were lucky. Egon started to tell people that their ghost problems didn’t matter because the world was coming to an end. He got spooky. Freaked me out.
It probably knocked Ray to see the logical and common-sensible member of the team act that way... It could even be that things escalated so quickly with Egon that he'd left before Ray and the others had a chance to speak with him about what was going on.

I do agree that things could've been explained in more detail, giving a better idea behind both Ray and Egon's respective trains of thought... Whether we'll get that remains to be seen. I get the feeling that with Afterlife having very much been a story about dwelling on the past, that with Egon's spirit now at rest, "Firehouse" will probably be looking towards the future of the characters and the company.
Speaking about the company... Are kids their age legally allowed to run a company? If not, what is the most likely scenario?

Grooberson take his place as a Ghostbuster, maybe Trevor.... And who else? The original team can stay as R&D support, the most fit for the field job is Winston and that's three men in the street.
#4971138
Davideverona wrote: July 4th, 2022, 12:23 pm
Speaking about the company... Are kids their age legally allowed to run a company? If not, what is the most likely scenario?
I'm no expert in US labor law, depending on their ages they might be allowed some sort of light involvement through work experience/internship... But it depends on what age the characters are in the film universe when the new film's released. The Extreme Ghostbusters were 17-18 years old, and in the flexible world of the cartoon they were allowed to serve as Ghostbusters with no objection by the city or law enforcement officials - McKenna Grace has just turned 16, and Logan Kim is 15... But they could be aged up a little for "Firehouse".
#4971140
This is a huge problem for me. Huge.

Forget about all the BS with Ray, which is a HUGE issue.

But this movie never once went for the joke. We all know how Harold and Dan would write this, right?

Egon got Callie’s Mom pregnant during an experiment procedure examining the human sexual/reproduction systems in a high stress Zero G environment. Egon knocked Callie’s mom up in a pool and he did it for science. There was no passion, no love. Just science. BUT Egon tried to stay detached and uninvolved, but he couldn’t. He created a being. A life. That’s precious & rare. Of all the chaos in the universe, suns going supernova, galaxies sucked into oblivion…right here on our tiny blue dot, two people got together created a being that lived a life, then had kids of her own. Egon was always missing that one variable in science, that one thing that makes it all worth it. That one thing? Love. The love for a child.

Ghostbusters is always about mixing the fantastic with the mundane. Callie being a product of two people just doing science is perfect.

One of the jokes I have in my GB3 scripts is that the male ghostbusters have to give bi-monthly sperm samples and that they have to wear these massively thick and uncomfortable lead testicle protectors. Why? The OGB’s went sterile. This is brought up in a “oh by the way” kind of way just as the new recruits are suiting up for the first time.

Here’s a dialogue sample:
Ray:“Oh and if at anytime during the busting process you get a metallic taste in your mouth, don’t worry. That’s just the radiation doing it’s thing. Oh and here. Take these.

Marv: “What are these?

Ray: “Iodine pills. These babies saved hundreds of lives during Chernobyl. If your hair starts falling out in the shower take 1.

The new recruits give Ray a “you’ve got to be kidding me” dead eye stare.

Ray: ok. Ok. Take 2. Don’t worry you’ll be fine. Look at me! I’m fine. My hair grew back..eventually, and I still have 20% of my vision left. And I can still taste things…every once in a while”
#4971145
Davideverona wrote: July 4th, 2022, 12:23 pm
Speaking about the company... Are kids their age legally allowed to run a company? If not, what is the most likely scenario?

Grooberson take his place as a Ghostbuster, maybe Trevor.... And who else? The original team can stay as R&D support, the most fit for the field job is Winston and that's three men in the street.
You can start working as young as 14 in NYC... with limitations. So, assuming the sequel is "modern day" and two years have passed since Summerville, Phoebe and Podcast will be 15ish while Trevor will be 18ish. Though, knowing how the GBs operate, I could see some book fudging to allow Phoebe to do a bit more off the books.
#4971150
Davideverona wrote: July 4th, 2022, 12:23 pm
Grooberson take his place as a Ghostbuster, maybe Trevor.... And who else? The original team can stay as R&D support, the most fit for the field job is Winston and that's three men in the street.
Doesn’t Peter say: “Venkman, from the head office” in Afterlife?
#4971154
One time wrote: July 5th, 2022, 10:21 am Doesn’t Peter say: “Venkman, from the head office” in Afterlife?
Peter Venkman wrote:Pete Venkman from the home office
Though at this point I expect to see Winston leading the corporate side of the business, and maybe lending some support in the field, with Ray likely basing himself at the Firehouse for the training/lore side of the business.

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