#4959971
GhostFaceX wrote: November 15th, 2021, 4:19 pmI'm surprised they used basically what people describe as a cheap knockoff
Ultimately it's down to what's readily available and in large quantities. Genuine A.L.I.C.E frames are more reliable, but after over thirty years of Ghostheads buying up the surplus stock, the vintage stuff is getting harder to come by.
#4959973
Kingpin wrote: November 15th, 2021, 4:52 pm
GhostFaceX wrote: November 15th, 2021, 4:19 pmI'm surprised they used basically what people describe as a cheap knockoff
Ultimately it's down to what's readily available and in large quantities. Genuine A.L.I.C.E frames are more reliable, but after over thirty years of Ghostheads buying up the surplus stock, the vintage stuff is getting harder to come by.
So just to be sure, it's for sure that they used Fox frames in the new movie?

I was already turned off of Rothco from reading about bad straps and a reversed bar or something.
#4959975
Kingpin wrote: November 15th, 2021, 2:30 pm
oidoglr wrote: November 15th, 2021, 7:46 am Directly from the listing on that page: "These frames are just like the ones used on the Proton Packs in Ghostbusters: Afterlife and include the same style straps and kidney belts as used in the film."
I owe you an apology, I was getting confused with a different project AJ has been spearheading regarding A.L.I.C.E frames and straps.
Ecto_1X wrote: November 14th, 2021, 9:21 pm Just a question, is https://www.gbfans.com/shop/alice-pack-frame/ the new Alice frame that AJ was talking about? $70 includes the frame AND straps and kidney belt?
To follow-up your question: the listing you posted is unrelated to the A.L.I.C.E. frame and straps that AJ is getting commissioned. We hope to have some news on that soon.
Ah Thanks Kingpin. I was confused cause I saw it in stock and I thought that was the one especially with the description .
#4959976
GhostFaceX wrote: November 15th, 2021, 5:01 pm So just to be sure, it's for sure that they used Fox frames in the new movie?
I'm just reporting what others have said, I've no experience with the Fox frames so wouldn't recognise them if sat next to a Rothco one.
#4959982
They do appear to have used Fox outdoors frames.

Fox frames have a more squared off cut out section here at the diagonal support.

Image

Where as Rotcho frames have a more triangular shape there as the genuine military issue frames also had.

Image

From what we've seen, the afterlife packs have the more squared off shape at the diagonal support in that spot so It's safe to assume they did indeed use the Fox frames.

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#4959983
RedSpecial wrote: November 15th, 2021, 6:13 pm They do appear to have used Fox outdoors frames.

Fox frames have a more squared off cut out section here at the diagonal support.

Image

Where as Rotcho frames have a more triangular shape there as the genuine military issue frames also had.

Image

From what we've seen, the afterlife packs have the more squared off shape at the diagonal support in that spot so It's safe to assume they did indeed use the Fox frames.

Image
Thank you! I had no idea what to look for as I have an untrained eye here, and they look so similar. I've been trying to compare crappy small stock photos of each product with the ones they used and posted on the tested website.
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#4959988
ccv66 wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:25 am I would love it if Hasbro made an'84 wand, but they probably won't. Their current wand is selling like hotcakes. Sold out until June '22. No financial reason to produce another wand. It will probably be close 2024 before they're done milking the afterlife wand and even start thinking about making an '84 one. It's also a big assumption that they're allowed to make props from the original movies. With Mack factory, Sony may have not given the rights to Hasbro.
The Hasbro Spenglers wand is selling like hotcakes ‘cos it’s the only available wand in 1:1. The Matty wand being $1300 on eBay.

Haven’t seen the movie yet (tomorrow) but
This Post Contains Spoilers
In all honesty, I don’t like the ‘21 Spenglers wand as much as I do the ‘84. The new wand makes me think Sony changed the product slightly to create new sellable merchandise.

‘21 wand
It looks broken, like it’s going to fall apart, held together by tape and featuring a wooden front straight grip from a completely different product (a shotgun?).

‘84 wand
‘84 looked congruent. Manufactured. Like an actual piece of equipment that exists in real life. The double offset front and rear finger grip made you wonder what this actual tool was designed for. If holding it tightly in that offset grip was so important to its function? It looked like a giant mysterious light diode or emitter of some sort where having a strong grip on it was essential. Which is exactly what it is!

Luke ANH/TFA Light saber
This design is the opposite of a Luke ANH/TFA light saber. That was made from a Graflex flash tube with many angled and sharp pieces welded on it. Completely unusable in real life because it would cut and bruise your hand to pieces in any bind, parry or thrust. That’s why the SW actors had ones with rubber handles.

The ‘21 wand gets rid of how thought out that original design was. Now it just looks like a broken and patched up piece of regular equipment. The function is no longer implicit in the form.

Some will disagree with me for sure. But like some others I really hope they make an ‘84 wand or at least give the pack some sort of output jack (line) that will allow us to connect to a Matty with our own middleware pcb or chip without taking the pack apart and soldering, and at least keep the door open for Hasbro to connect to something it makes in the future.
Last edited by One time on November 15th, 2021, 9:22 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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#4959989
bobafett321 wrote: November 10th, 2021, 10:04 pm

Yes, the speaker size I the wand can potentially be a problem, especially in a convention setting with lots of people and noise.

In GB 1, we hear the power cycle sound both when the pack itself is switched on (inside elevator with Ray's pack) and when the wand is turned on (Egon exiting elevator in the next scene). So the big question is, as you stated, the power down sound. Maybe it comes from both the wand and pack?
Here are two examples of how the pack could sync up to the wand using the “power draw” method. One example that is not so good, the other accurate to the scenes you mention:

Bad:
If the wand is connected but its 3 switches are off, when the pack main “afterlife” switch is flipped, you hear the cyclotron startup sound through the pack speaker and deep hum… now you switch on the wand, you get the same sound again through the little speaker in the wand.. did it start up twice? The sounds are also playing through each other. You don’t want this. It’s messy and feels cheap.

Good:

Cyclotron startup sound effect started by wand switch (GB2 courtroom / Egon GB1 elevator exit)

The pack would need to know the wand is connected (maybe plunger switch on the hose screwcap) but switched off.
The moment you hit the “afterlife switch” on the pack, it should -not- play the startup sound through the pack speaker. Because it will play the sound through the pack speaker when the switches are triggered on the wand (GB2 courtroom Do-Ray-Egon scene / GB1 Egon elevator exit).

Cyclotron sound effect started by pack switch (GB1 inside elevator)

But if the wand is connected and the switches on the wand ARE on, the moment the “afterlife” switch is flipped on the pack then it -would- need to play the startup sound through the pack speaker (GB1 elevator startup scene).

In both Good: examples above the pack would need to play the sound without a delay of more than 0.1s because the wand speaker can’t be silenced.
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#4959994
ZLevee wrote: November 14th, 2021, 11:55 am For pack/thrower interoperability, i don’t think the practical matters of speaker size, or even using one set of batteries located in the pack, were the real interests (although not irrelevant either).

My impression is people were looking for cool effects, even if perhaps they are inferred from the films though not necessarily shown. Some ideas:

(1) having the pack motor generate more of a rumble at times when the thrower is being used,
(2) having the pack’s lights go from the usual pattern to something else indicating use, like more cyclotron LED activity, or perhaps a drop in the power cell LED level to indicate a momentary power drain.
(3) perhaps adjusting the intensity dial on the thrower could alter the pitch or intensity of pack sounds, or alter the degree of dip the pack power cell LEDs make when in use, or affect the cyclotron LED speed.
(4) power flipped on the pack could activate a powered but safe state on the thrower (in addition to the multiple states the thrower already has - oscillator on, electromagnets on, safety off, “intensify” trigger button).
(5) the thrower’s “overheating” behavior, incorporated from the video game, could have the corresponding pack behavior.


PS: I agree with everything you said. Even though something is not explicit, it’s implicit.

None of the movies show the wand power adjust dial actually changing the bar graph size. But its operation is implicit from the decals (numbers and pie circles) on the ‘84 screen used prop. And it’s how both the Matty and Hasbro wands work.

I always thought the powercell blue light was there to show OTHER ghostbusters what power settings you were on by only scrolling up to that level. It makes sense. Why put a light somewhere the user can’t see it? Why have a light feature indicate a continuous progression of 15 lights over and over again and never do anything else?

It’s simply an enlarged duplicate of the wand bar graph but intended for the rest of your teammates.
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#4960009
One time wrote: November 15th, 2021, 9:56 pm
ZLevee wrote: November 14th, 2021, 11:55 am For pack/thrower interoperability .....My impression is people were looking for cool effects, even if perhaps they are inferred from the films though not necessarily shown. Some ideas:
(1) having the pack motor generate more of a rumble at times when the thrower is being used,
(2) having the pack’s lights go from the usual pattern to something else indicating use, like more cyclotron LED activity, and/or perhaps a drop in the power cell LED level to indicate a momentary power drain.
(3) perhaps adjusting the intensity dial on the thrower could alter the pitch or intensity of pack sounds, and/or alter the degree of dip the pack power cell LEDs make when in use, and/or affect the cyclotron LED speed.
(4) power flipped on the pack could activate a powered but safe state on the thrower (in addition to the multiple states the thrower already has - oscillator on, electromagnets on, safety off, “intensify” trigger button).
(5) the thrower’s “overheating” behavior, already incorporated from the video game, could have the corresponding pack behavior.
...... I agree with everything you said. Even though something is not explicit, it’s implicit.

None of the movies show the wand power adjust dial actually changing the bar graph size. But its operation is implicit from the decals (numbers and pie circles) on the ‘84 screen used prop. And it’s how both the Matty and Hasbro wands work.

I always thought the powercell blue light was there to show OTHER ghostbusters what power settings you were on by only scrolling up to that level. It makes sense. Why put a light somewhere the user can’t see it? Why have a light feature indicate a continuous progression of 15 lights over and over again and never do anything else?

It’s simply an enlarged duplicate of the wand bar graph but intended for the rest of your teammates.
I'm glad my thoughts on this resonate, as I did ruminate on this a bit, and thank you for helping elucidate my points - (A) with the power cell and cyclotron LEDs, why have ANY indicators on your pack if they don't vary, to thereby, you know, INDICATE anything? (B) There are effects one would implicitly expect from the pack and thrower, based on what we know the parts to be and based on life experience with technology, though much of this has not been explicitly portrayed onscreen. These aren't negated onscreen, but simply not shown either way, often due to camera angles when the throwers are in use.

Yes, regarding the intensity dial, aside from the decals, we can see the eye and hand movements made for adjustments when Egon says "we're gonna go full power" while fighting Gozer, or "Venkman shorten your stream" in the ballroom. That video you provided for the power cell LEDs associating with the intensity dial is along the right thought process, though I might vary it a bit differently like I mentioned above (i.e. perhaps while the thrower is in use, the blue line tops at at a lower level to indicate drain, and perhaps where it tops out is affected by the intensity dial setting, and perhaps from there the top level slowly drops lower the longer the particle stream is active)

I wonder if there's a way, while the Hasbro team is developing this thing, to submit suggestions for LED, Audio, and rumble effect associations and behaviors?
Last edited by ZLevee on November 16th, 2021, 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#4960013
hawkbatsquadron wrote: November 15th, 2021, 11:08 pm Here are some good shots of the Rothco Frame on my Spirit pack. The majority of the surplus frames locally
were pretty shot, and would need to be re-riveted, so I went with the Rothco.

Image
Soo dumb question, but are you sure it's a Rothco? Because yours has that square hole in it instead of a triangle, just like the Fox one..which means kind of back to square one. Gonna compare pics though.
#4960015
ZLevee wrote: November 16th, 2021, 12:27 am
One time wrote: November 15th, 2021, 9:56 pm

...... I agree with everything you said. Even though something is not explicit, it’s implicit.

None of the movies show the wand power adjust dial actually changing the bar graph size. But its operation is implicit from the decals (numbers and pie circles) on the ‘84 screen used prop. And it’s how both the Matty and Hasbro wands work.

I always thought the powercell blue light was there to show OTHER ghostbusters what power settings you were on by only scrolling up to that level. It makes sense. Why put a light somewhere the user can’t see it? Why have a light feature indicate a continuous progression of 15 lights over and over again and never do anything else?

It’s simply an enlarged duplicate of the wand bar graph but intended for the rest of your teammates.
I'm glad my thoughts on this resonate, as I did ruminate on this a bit, and thank you for helping elucidate my points - (A) with the power cell and cyclotron LEDs, why have ANY indicators on your pack if they don't vary, to thereby, you know, INDICATE anything? (B) There are effects one would implicitly expect from the pack and thrower, based on what we know the parts to be and based on life experience with technology, though much of this has not been explicitly portrayal onscreen. These aren't negated onscreen, but simply not shown either way, often due to camera angles when the throwers are in use.

Yes, regarding the intensity dial, aside from the decals, we can see the eye and hand movements made for adjustments when Egon says "we're gonna go full power" while fighting Gozer, or "Venkman shorten your stream" in the ballroom. That video you provided for the power cell LEDs associating with the intensity dial is along the right thought process, though I might vary it a bit differently like I mentioned above (i.e. perhaps while the thrower is in use, the blue line tops at at a lower level to indicate drain, and perhaps where it tops out is affected by the intensity dial setting, and perhaps from there the top level slowly drops lower the longer the particle stream is active)

I wonder if there's a way, while the Hasbro team is developing this thing, to submit suggestions for LED, Audio, and rumble effect associations and behaviors?

I like where this is going. The only issue is the wand bar graph. We only get 2-3 shots of it in the whole film. In GB 1. When Ray is going after Slimer, we see a shot of it. His wand is clearly on, but no bar graph. We later see that Egon's bar graph is lit while capturing Slimer but the entire graph is lit and solid, not flickering or scrolling like many of us have ours doing. The next time we get a good shot is in GB 2 courtroom scene when Ray has it pointed up moving one of the brothers to the trap, and it looks like the graph isn't lit.

I'm not convinced that they are for power settings, as the knob on top has markings and a pointer that does that job and I'm not convinced that the other team members are going to have time too look over at the back of their fellow busters to see their power setting. This is especially true seeing how often the spread out or separate when busting ghosts.

I think the power cell light and wand bar graph probably show coding for pack/wand errors (much like light codes for a furnace). The wand graph is for the user, the pack is for a team member. They usually don't power on the packs until they are already on their backs, they need another person to turn it on, and the switch is next to the light bar. It makes sense that they turn it on, look to see if the codes are good, then go from there.
#4960018
bobafett321 wrote: November 16th, 2021, 2:04 am We only get 2-3 shots of it in the whole film. In GB 1. When Ray is going after Slimer, we see a shot of it. His wand is clearly on, but no bar graph. We later see that Egon's bar graph is lit while capturing Slimer but the entire graph is lit and solid, not flickering or scrolling like many of us have ours doing. The next time we get a good shot is in GB 2 courtroom scene when Ray has it pointed up moving one of the brothers to the trap, and it looks like the graph isn't lit.
Thing is though that all you need is for the light to burn out, a wire to snap, or even a switch not to be turned on on the prop to create visual irregularities in how it appears through the film.

And one shot you didn't mention is the scene where the bargraph is scrolling when the Packs are being primed to fight Gozer.

Now, my personal belief is that if they'd had the technology at the time, the graph would've been scrolling on all of the props when the thrower was activated, not just on the super-hero... But as you may've seen, in some of the photos that have fluttered through the community over the years: the electronics rig to get it to operate was pretty massive, and likely heavy.

And now with Afterlife, we're yet to see the graph continuously scrolling... But in the scene where Phoebe fires it while Podcast watches on, you can see the bargraph fill up from bottom-to-top as she powers up the Proton Gun:



That does suggest it represents the power or charge level.
#4960023
Well I am absolutely stumped. The Rothco and Fox look identical as far as I can tell.

Except some pictures show the Fox belt buckle being very round, scalloped instead of diagonal and squared angles.

Image
Image

but on Fox's website, on their black strap version, the buckle is different and matches the Rothco one. Sooo confused.
#4960045
hawkbatsquadron wrote: November 16th, 2021, 6:52 am Yes, it's a Rothco. I'm certain because that's what I ordered and it had a Rothco tag on it.
There is a possibility that one manufacturer is making all of them and selling them to everyone.
I believe on facebook AJ said when he inquired about getting them made to the original spec he found out the manufacturer actually had the right specs for the original frames. Fox Outdoor/Rothco are choosing to have them made more cheaply.
#4960078
ZLevee wrote: November 16th, 2021, 12:27 am
One time wrote: November 15th, 2021, 9:56 pm

...... I agree with everything you said. Even though something is not explicit, it’s implicit.

None of the movies show the wand power adjust dial actually changing the bar graph size. But its operation is implicit from the decals (numbers and pie circles) on the ‘84 screen used prop. And it’s how both the Matty and Hasbro wands work.

I always thought the powercell blue light was there to show OTHER ghostbusters what power settings you were on by only scrolling up to that level. It makes sense. Why put a light somewhere the user can’t see it? Why have a light feature indicate a continuous progression of 15 lights over and over again and never do anything else?

It’s simply an enlarged duplicate of the wand bar graph but intended for the rest of your teammates.
I'm glad my thoughts on this resonate, as I did ruminate on this a bit, and thank you for helping elucidate my points - (A) with the power cell and cyclotron LEDs, why have ANY indicators on your pack if they don't vary, to thereby, you know, INDICATE anything? (B) There are effects one would implicitly expect from the pack and thrower, based on what we know the parts to be and based on life experience with technology, though much of this has not been explicitly portrayed onscreen. These aren't negated onscreen, but simply not shown either way, often due to camera angles when the throwers are in use.

Yes, regarding the intensity dial, aside from the decals, we can see the eye and hand movements made for adjustments when Egon says "we're gonna go full power" while fighting Gozer, or "Venkman shorten your stream" in the ballroom. That video you provided for the power cell LEDs associating with the intensity dial is along the right thought process, though I might vary it a bit differently like I mentioned above (i.e. perhaps while the thrower is in use, the blue line tops at at a lower level to indicate drain, and perhaps where it tops out is affected by the intensity dial setting, and perhaps from there the top level slowly drops lower the longer the particle stream is active)

I wonder if there's a way, while the Hasbro team is developing this thing, to submit suggestions for LED, Audio, and rumble effect associations and behaviors?
Yep you caught that! Whoever made that chip to get the Matty wand to run the pack lights didn't set up the power cell lights with a completely new set of (plausible) functionality. They did make it very interesting and plausible though.

Listen, precise functionality of GB equipment can be a touchy subject. Prop builders spend years trying to get everything to look exactly like the scenes. They are incredibly proud of their work (as they should be). Opinions on how it "works" that isn't demonstrated explicitly on screen can be a very hard sell to them.

I see 3 levels of interpretation:

1. What we see in the movies and nothing else
This hardcore view obviously has its merits as everything will be precisely as the scenes. It doesn't leave room for increasing the universe plausibility. It also doesn't take into account sloppy workmanship or other shooting problems.

It would mean the PP would have to feature two additional lights where the black paint rubbed off on the prop left of the power cell (Ray hotel scene).

Or a prop guy complaining that a small light failed in a scene or didn't turn on and Reitman saying: "forget it we got the shot, this movie is incredibly late as it is. We are not doing a retake just for a little light."

It could also be that some scenes were shot with less attention to detail. Reitman has often said that most scenes were "1st take" on GB. There was no time for reshoots or correcting mistakes. Lights on the props would be last on the list of things that warranted wasting more time.


2. What isn't shown on screen, but can plausibly be inferred from buttons and decals on the props

Case in point, the power adjustment dial on the wand. In none of the movies does it adjust the power. Every scene that involves a power adjustment moment (Venkman Slimer bust and GB1 rooftop scene) cuts away a frame or two before they put their left hand on it. Although it looks like their left hand is going exactly to the dial when they let go of the front grip.

The decals however finish the story. The +1, +2, +3 on the power adjust dial on the screen used prop and the 5 circular pie decals next to the bar graph. Going from empty (no power) in quarters to a full circle (full power). These 4 modes of power (quarter, half, three quarter, full stream) line up perfectly with the 4 power modes written on the dial. It's not explicit but it's implicit.

To have the bargraph just go up and down continuously makes no sense at all. Why have any markings next to it at all then?

Matty and Hasbro built their wand this way. Although Matty said: "wait a minute, this bargraph IS shown to scroll now and then in some scenes, we can't ignore that". So they made it scroll up and down when you turn on the upper metal switch, adjust the power and turn on the cyclotron. No one has said it but that makes sense in that it is "calibrating", or "finding" the selected power output. Or whatever you think it's doing.


3. Own research, however plausible it may be

This would be completely own research. Without any scenes implying it or prop decals or functionality to back it up.
Although it doesn't mean that it would be guaranteed nonsense. Like in Afterlife Trailer 1; the PKE graph scrolling the other way on the middle (red led) setting.

Or the powercell lights being some form of equivalent of the wand bargraph for your teammates who can see the back of your pack. I'd go with that as it makes sense.

But if someone would say; "the cyclotron lights normally go clockwise but turn purple and go counter clockwise if broken.”

That just doesn't make any logical sense. It's not plausible.

Also people old enough would know to take into account 1980's tech. Red lights didn't suddenly change color. On 80's tech a single light indicator would usually be on and if there was a problem just start flashing. Or if normally it was flashing if something was wrong it would just light up solid. People not around in the 80's really wouldn't know that as it's not something that's described anywhere. (unless they had used heaps of early 80's power tools or crude electronics.)

You could say the cyclotron lights light up to indicate the 4 quadrants of the cyclotron (the electromagnets) are operating normally, and if suddenly one red light stays lit it means there is a problem with that electromagnet. But thinking like that is really a rabbit hole. You could make up a million things that sound "logical" that way.

Well maybe not a million, but at least like 5.
Last edited by One time on November 16th, 2021, 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#4960080
THawke wrote: November 16th, 2021, 3:30 pm
Dragonfire82877 wrote: November 16th, 2021, 10:27 am 8500 backers! Only 500 more to get the hose.
Watching the numbers creep up as slowly as they are now is agonizing though.
That 9000 is crucial. It's not just a plastic hose.

That 9000 is the hope for any communication between the pack and the wand -at all-.

Without that 9000, this is really just half of a functional proton pack. A static display piece.
#4960089
One time wrote: November 16th, 2021, 3:48 pm
THawke wrote: November 16th, 2021, 3:30 pm
Watching the numbers creep up as slowly as they are now is agonizing though.
That 9000 is crucial. It's not just a plastic hose.

That 9000 is the hope for any communication between the pack and the wand -at all-.

Without that 9000, this is really just half of a functional proton pack. A static display piece.
Oh believe me, I know. I don't just want the hose. I want the hose. Badly. Watching the numbers has become sort of an obsession at this point. That's why it's so agonizing seeing them move so slowly now. I want to see that magic 9000.
#4960093
One time wrote: November 16th, 2021, 3:48 pm Oh believe me, I know. I don't just want the hose. I want the hose. Badly. Watching the numbers has become sort of an obsession at this point. That's why it's so agonizing seeing them move so slowly now. I want to see that magic 9000.
But is it Excel Spreadsheet obsession!
Image
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